Pope asks India not to ban religious conversions

Hindustan Times ^ | May 20, 2006

[The Lion Roars]

The reason why such visas may be refused is due to migration reasons..the chance of the priest running away from his sponsor and joining the illegal economic migrant population is pretty high.

Given that many western missionaries have indulged in paedophilism in india, it is perfectly OK for the indian government to guard its children and refuse visas for these priests. The visas aren't refused -- there are quite a few priests given religious visas.

Numbers? Can you please tell me how many priests you see pounding the streets with Gitas in hand? A few temples in N.America get priests for performing temple rites. The Vedanta Society - for example - cant import missionaries to preach here in the US.

[The Lion Roars]

You're calling hinduism a cult?

I am calling the hare krishnas a cult. I regard them as a cult because they destroy peoples lives by pulling them away from society and a productive existence. I dont know how much this cult is popular in india. I am sure many hindus would regard this as a cult.

And I am surprised that you seem to regard Christianity as a cult.

[The Lion Roars]

So you support jihadis and other people who use violence to kill and maim?

lol. your technique of putting words in other peoples mouth (comments) is funny. never saw ridgerunner say that. he is opposed to conversion through bribes, lies and coercion.

[The Lion Roars]

Actually, they're doing markedly better among educated Indians for the one reason you seem to lack -- namely that Indians are smart and can think for themselves. These educated convert and are intellectual convertees (and/or faith derived)

Good. Looks like you support the anti conversion arguments then. We are all agred on that point. Nice to see you understand our point of view. It did take some time. But arguments by Gengis and AR are effective. Welcome to the club and thanks for your support.

[ARridgerunner]

So you support jihadis and other people who use violence to kill and maim?

I do not. I do see the Bajrang Dal is hated by the media.

When Christianity and Islam and Buddhism stop being negative, then you might have an opening:-) Until then, you don't.

...that it is not Christianity, it is NOT Buddhism, it is NOT Islam etc. etc.

None of these religions claim to be Hinduism. The very idea is totally absurd.

[ARridgerunner]

he is opposed to conversion through bribes, lies and coercion.

Yes, but I am also opposed to the blind leading the blind.

[GregH]

right. Chanting of vedic hymns is a popular profession for illegal immigrants. sarc. You surely are not that dense are you? How many times someone comes in a cultural touring group or dance group to visit the US , then disappear in to the country and stay after the visas are expired and work illegally in some restaurant or gas station etc? There are millions of illegal immigrants who come through the visa route and run away, the consular officer of the US embassy in India or other developing nations are very hard on visas that is not in your usual student, H1, family visit categories. So many visa applications are declined because of a lot of reasons and mainly because the consular officer is worried that the applicant would migrate to the US and overstay their short term visas, that would the most likely reason. You made the allegation that Hindu priests are denied visas because of religious reasons ( even though many are given visas)- do you have any proof to back up your allegation? ' Building a temple in the deep south in the 60s or 70s was unthinkable' How many Hindus were there in the deep south in the 60's or 70's? Dont many of them reside in the east or west coast. 'The British Government regularly donates to prosleytising church groups to convert poor hindus.' Any proof? Not from some nutcase loony site but a genuine news site?. 'The US and British Governments care more for Christianity than the Indian Government could care for Hinduism.' Not sure about the Indian Government and its attitude towards Hindus, since it is officially secular maybe thats the case. In the US, Britain ACLU and its associated grouos, many sections of Media, Democrats are not very friendly towards Christians . So really dont know what you are on about, if you have ever been in the US freedom of religion is widely prevalent, the anti-American posts from you is widely off the mark. America even though a Christian nation, does not legislate to restrict religious rights of others, dont think Indian Govts have the same attitude, even the Indian society is open-minded in its attitude.

[GregH]

"right. Chanting of vedic hymns is a popular profession for illegal immigrants. sarc. "

You surely are not that dense are you? How many times someone comes in a cultural touring group or dance group to visit the US , then disappear in to the country and stay after the visas are expired and work illegally in some restaurant or gas station etc?

There are millions of illegal immigrants who come through the visa route and run away, the consular officer of the US embassy in India or other developing nations are very hard on visas that is not in your usual student, H1, family visit categories. So many visa applications are declined because of a lot of reasons and mainly because the consular officer is worried that the applicant would migrate to the US and overstay their short term visas, that would the most likely reason.

You made the allegation that Hindu priests are denied visas because of religious reasons ( even though many are given visas)- do you have any proof to back up your allegation? '

"Building a temple in the deep south in the 60s or 70s was unthinkable"
How many Hindus were there in the deep south in the 60's or 70's? Dont many of them reside in the east or west coast.

'The British Government regularly donates to prosleytising church groups to convert poor hindus.'
Any proof? Not from some nutcase loony site but a genuine news site?.

'The US and British Governments care more for Christianity than the Indian Government could care for Hinduism.'
Not sure about the Indian Government and its attitude towards Hindus, since it is officially secular maybe thats the case. In the US, Britain ACLU and its associated grouos, many sections of Media, Democrats are not very friendly towards Christians . So really dont know what you are on about, if you have ever been in the US freedom of religion is widely prevalent, the anti-American posts from you is widely off the mark. America even though a Christian nation, does not legislate to restrict religious rights of others, dont think Indian Govts have the same attitude, even the Indian society is open-minded in its attitude.

[GregH]

The Muslims gave an attitude that you either convert or die, it is not new to Indian society which has seen it in its past with the invasion from the north. The VHP, RSS and other fringe loonies dont have a clue..they seem to be bothered by Christians who really contribute to Indias development, glad that these clowns in the bjp movement dont have a big political influence.

[GregH]

The Muslims ( particulary the most religious among them) have an attitude that you either convert or die, it is not new to Indian society which has seen it in its past with the invasion from the north. The VHP, RSS and other fringe loonies dont have a clue..they seem to be bothered by Christians who really contribute to Indias development, glad that these clowns in the bjp movement dont have a big political influence.

[GregH]

Yeah it could be.. I admit i dont know much in this area. Popular theories propose the foreign invasion/native born which could be behind the caste differences in Indian society.

[Gengis Khan]

Not really -- the problem was that there was (and IS) a real feeling that Delhi dominates and stamps out regional feelings. That's diminished ever since the south became the center of the IT industry. And you can't deny that or go hysterical and try and think it's related to Sri Lanka.

 

(Sigh) What has IT industry got to do with any of this? You were talking about a feeling of alienation if I remember. You mean an IT industry or two would be a solution for every such feeling of alienation?

 

(Sigh) I dont know why you had to revive this thread.

Terrorism in NE (with the backing of the Church) is supported by the fundings comming from Christian countries and from China

"The Church"? Really, you mean to say that the Catholic Church supports terrorism? You have no proof of that. You post some articles that some crazy individuals from Baptist groups say things, but no church group supports terrorists.

 

Check post #111, #166. Its a BBC article. I said its a Church thats involved. I didnt say whether it was a Catholic, Baptist, Protestant, Pentacostal, Methodist, Presbyterian or Orthodox Church thats involved.

 

 

The N-E problem also exists in other states there, even those with Hindu majority because the NE felt (and for your information, that's the past tense), yes, FELT alienated. HAve you noticed that terrorism and militancy in the NE has declined considerably since the 1990s? Why? Because the NE is now part of India's mainstream economy, it's more integrated and people feel that they are part of India.

 

How so? What IT COs does the NE have?

When the same tirade is used against Hindus as regarding unverified news articles about nuns or Jesuits being assulted (reported by Christian propagandist sites) you would believe them in a heart beat. You dont want to believe this particular article because it shows Christian missionary work in poor light but it does not mean this news has got to be untrue

REally, have you even READ my posts or do you just want to make unqualified remarks? I don't believe silly posts (and you've been copied in on my posts where I do refute such crazy articles). Does that mean that there aren't instances of Christians being targetted in INdia? No. there are Steines cases, but they are barely a handful. are there Hindu persecutions in India? Yes, the same answer qualifies. If a Hindu gets burnt to death by Christians in India or anywhere because of his faith, I'll condemn that, and the opposite as well.

 

In India there plenty of Hindus too who were killed by Christian Terrorist groups like the NLFT. I hope you do admit there are Christian terrorists who kill Hindus and I hope you will condemn those as well.

http://www.hinduhumanrights.org/news/newsarticle011005.html

BTW I do condemn the attacks on Christians.

 

Thats because they are pseudo-secularists. We dont yet have our version of Fox-news and so long as we dont we dont have much choice except to quote from this very biased media about Christian ot Muslims excesses.

If they are pseudo-secularists, why do you quote them as fact when they happen to parallel your views?

 

Very much like the liberal media is the only media avaliable, its hardly objective or hard on facts but the conservatives have not much choice but to quote from them. At least the conservatives have their own voice, truly secular Hindus dont have theirs yet.

Not really -- the problem was that there was (and IS) a real feeling that Delhi dominates and stamps out regional feelings. That's diminished ever since the south became the center of the IT industry. And you can't deny that or go hysterical and try and think it's related to Sri Lanka.

(Sigh) What has IT industry got to do with any of this? You were talking about a feeling of alienation if I remember. You mean an IT industry or two would be a solution for every such feeling of alienation?

(Sigh) I dont know why you had to revive this thread.

Terrorism in NE (with the backing of the Church) is supported by the fundings comming from Christian countries and from China

"The Church"? Really, you mean to say that the Catholic Church supports terrorism? You have no proof of that. You post some articles that some crazy individuals from Baptist groups say things, but no church group supports terrorists.

Check post #111, #166. Its a BBC article. I said its a Church thats involved. I didnt say whether it was a Catholic, Baptist, Protestant, Pentacostal, Methodist, Presbyterian or Orthodox Church thats involved.

The N-E problem also exists in other states there, even those with Hindu majority because the NE felt (and for your information, that's the past tense), yes, FELT alienated. HAve you noticed that terrorism and militancy in the NE has declined considerably since the 1990s? Why? Because the NE is now part of India's mainstream economy, it's more integrated and people feel that they are part of India.

[The Lion Roars]

How many times someone comes in a cultural touring group or dance group to visit the US , then disappear in to the country and stay after the visas are expired and work illegally in some restaurant or gas station etc?

How are cultural or dance groups relevant to the discussion? We are talking about PRIESTS. There have been lots of instances where western missionaries have abused kids in India. Is that reason enough to throw out ALL western missionaries?? How many Hindus were there in the deep south in the 60's or 70's?

How many Hindus does it take to build a temple?? If there was religious freedom then even one hindu should be able to practise his faith. Any proof? Not from some nutcase loony site but a genuine news site?.

Could you use that same yardstick for hindu bashing posts. So really dont know what you are on about, if you have ever been in the US freedom of religion is widely prevalent, the anti-American posts from you is widely off the mark.

I am American and as my posts indicate - I am patriotic. In this case I happen to disagree with you and so would a lot of conservative americans.

[GregH]

'How are cultural or dance groups relevant to the discussion? '

There are relevant to the discussion about granting visas, where the policy is to not give visas to people who overstay. So more lkely economic reasons are behind visa refusal decisions for priests, rather than a tendency to protect Christian values.

'We are talking about PRIESTS. There have been lots of instances where western missionaries have abused kids in India. Is that reason enough to throw out ALL western missionaries?? '


Any proof for that allegation. Either put up or shut, you cant make blanket allegations without any proof.


'How many Hindus does it take to build a temple?? If there was religious freedom then even one hindu should be able to practise his faith'
Temples are built where there is a congregation, just like Churches are, so why build any where there are hardly any Hindus( deep south).

Even then why do places like Texas have a number of temples. THey represent the Christian south, and according to you should not allow such constructions.

'I am American and as my posts indicate - I am patriotic'
You may be or may notbe, but you sound a paronoid Lib from DU land who dislikes American Christian values and you post lots of allegations without any fact or credibility.

[The Lion Roars]

There are relevant to the discussion about granting visas, where the policy is to not give visas to people who overstay

Any proof of a hindu PRIEST doig that?? Borrowing a quote from you: "Any proof for that allegation. Either put up or shut, you cant make blanket allegations without any proof".

[Cronos]

Thanks Marduk.

No worries braindead.

I didnt know that Cardinal Ivan Dias is the Pope in waiting. Unfortunately I dont have access to the future current times or whatever you read./sarcasm.

well, seems like you don't have access to newspapers or magazines or any form of intelligent reading either as the idea that CArdinal Ivan Dias as the next Pope has been speculated in many quarters -- both before Pope BEnedicts election and after-- since Ivan is a religious conservative and comes from outside Europe and is a known Biblical and traditional scholar and highly respected.

Kind of puts to lie your little ignorant jibe that an Indian wouldn't be considered for the Papacy....

[Cronos]

Given that many western missionaries have indulged in paedophilism in india, it is perfectly OK for the indian government to guard its children and refuse visas for these priests

Ah, here we have some more lies -- many WESTERNERS have indulged in paedophilism in india -- not many western missionaries. You see the difference? Can be a bit difficult to actually read I guess.

Numbers? Can you please tell me how many priests you see pounding the streets with Gitas in hand? A few temples in N.America get priests for performing temple rites. The Vedanta Society - for example - cant import missionaries to preach here in the US.

Can you tell ME how many priests you see in India pounding the streets with Bibles in hand? Missionary work in India is done primarily by Indians. Hindu priests are welcome to the west to discuss their views -- Hindus priests won't ask their followers to strap bombs and fly planes into buildings.

[Cronos]

I am calling the hare krishnas a cult. I regard them as a cult because they destroy peoples lives by pulling them away from society and a productive existence. I dont know how much this cult is popular in india. I am sure many hindus would regard this as a cult.

Really, your post seemed to indicate that you felt that hinduism itself is a cult.

And I am surprised that you seem to regard Christianity as a cult.

well, I don't and I, unlike you, don't regard Hinduism as a cult either. comprende?

[Cronos]

really? So, you think it's ok for educated Hindus to convert?

[GregH]

If you cannot provide the proof for a paeophilic allegation, then shut the F up.

It is a serious allegation and if you are going to make that hate ridden attack on a conservative American board then you back the allegations with some facts. You are not in DU(democratic underground)to spew that kind of hatred, this is a pro-American board.

As for priests overstaying, in case your mind failed to comprehend , I said it was a line of reasoning followed by US consular officials( not an allegation against the priests) behind not granting visas to some Indians(who are from a third world nation) to visit the economically developed USA, when you made the original allegation that they were not given visas for religious reasons- again a rubbish allegation without any back up facts.