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Calif. bill would change electoral college [toward direct popular vote]
upi via email no link | 5/31/6

Posted on 05/31/2006 6:18:36 AM PDT by NativeNewYorker

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To: sheana; Hoodat
You are correct, absentee votes NEVER get counted unless the votes are close, they are then used to determine the outcome.

The California Secretary of State website states:

"All valid absentee ballots are counted in every election in California, regardless of the outcome or closeness of any race."

http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/elections_m.htm

41 posted on 05/31/2006 8:20:42 AM PDT by BlackRazor
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To: dirtboy
I think even today's SCOTUS would have a hard time parsing that one to mean anything else.

  I think they'd have a very easy time of it, myself. I have 3 grounds for this. (Please note: I think this law is a poor idea - but I also think it is Constitutional. That is all I'm arguing here.)

  1. As of this time, the courts have not found the tobacco agreement to be a compact between the states. Given that precedent, you have a very, very high hurdle to jump before anything becomes a compact. This is the point most likely to be overturned, so I'm just putting it up here. But it is worth noting that this is the current precedent.

  2. The legislation is crafted carefully to avoid the compact issue. The states are not entering into any type of formal agreement. Instead, each state is deciding how to allocate their electoral votes, and basing it on national popular vote, rather than their own state's total. They specify that they will only follow this method if enough other states have also apopted this method, but that is still reached independently, rather than as an agreement. It lacks the reciprocity features a compact would have.

  3. Finally, the Supreme Court, if they actually follow the Constitution (a frequently dubious assumption) would stay they heck out of this argument to begin with. It is left to the States to allocate their votes. It is left to Congress to determine whether to accept those votes (to decide whether the election was conducted properly, etc.) The Supreme Court has no role to play in this, and they should stay out of it. It is, as a result, left to the politics in the States and Congress. Given that, if enough states did pass laws like this, I have little doubt but that they would stand.

Drew Garrett

42 posted on 05/31/2006 8:24:51 AM PDT by agarrett
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To: thackney
I doubt this very much.

Somehow this idea seems to violate the Voting Rights Act.

Voters in the states not part of the "Compact" votes count toward the appointment of the electors while the those in the "Compact" States may not.

43 posted on 05/31/2006 8:34:27 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Proud soldier in the American Army of Occupation..)
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To: BlackRazor

I stand corrected! Thank you.

http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/code/code.html?sec=elec&codesection=15100-15112


44 posted on 05/31/2006 8:45:58 AM PDT by sheana
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To: agarrett
As of this time, the courts have not found the tobacco agreement to be a compact between the states.

It is not a compact but, it is a settlement agreement among plaintiffs and defendants.

It is left to the States to allocate their votes.

Can a State Legislature decide that a certain group only casts 3/5th of a vote. If not, why not? \

45 posted on 05/31/2006 8:59:23 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Proud soldier in the American Army of Occupation..)
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To: doc30

I see a big problem with this for Republicans. They only need a few key states to go along with this crap.
All the democrats would need to do is bump up voting in California and New York, and they would win every election.They also would only have to spend their money in a couple democratic states to get the vote out.


46 posted on 05/31/2006 9:16:43 AM PDT by kara37
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To: NativeNewYorker

Here's a link...

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/northamerica/article_1168352.php/Calif._bill_would_change_electoral_college

I thought that this was a hoax until I found the link. Do the Dims know that this would have given CA's EVs to Bush last time around?!


47 posted on 05/31/2006 9:20:51 AM PDT by Redcloak (Speak softly and wear a loud shirt.)
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To: BlackRazor
Do you have a link indicating they are not counted?

Back during the recount fiasco, I remember that the California vote total did not change from November 4 through November 30, indicating that no absentee ballots were added. Those links are no longer available, as they have been replaced by the official state total given around Dec. 15, 2000. However, I did find this link from MSNBC which contradicts my earlier claim: http://www.msnbc.com/d/d2k/g/state_CA.htm This gives an unofficial count on election day of 9.3 million votes cast for either Bush or Gore. The official State tally given out six weeks later totaled 10.4 million votes for either Bush or Gore. This would correlate with the 1.1 million figure given in another site for the number of absentee ballots cast, indicating that the absentee votes were indeed included with the Dec. 15th certification.
http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/sov/2000_general/pres.pdf

Please note that this is an addition of 1.1 million votes that were not included during the immediate aftermath of the election when the cries of "Gore won the popular vote" were loudest. I am willing to concede that my earlier claim was in error. However, I am not willing to concede that Gore won the popular vote since there is no certainty whatsoever as to what the actual popular vote was in all 50 states, nor is such a tally even relevant.

I find it highly ironic that the Democrats would even concern themselves in the popular vote tally considering that in the entire history of the Democrat Party, only five Democrats have ever managed to capture a majority of the popular vote in any presidential election.

48 posted on 05/31/2006 9:54:27 AM PDT by Hoodat ( Silly Dems, AYBABTU.)
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To: Brilliant

You can tell who benefits by who's supporting it. California already has too much influence in Washington.

--

Couldn't tell by as little as we see come back to this state in funds from the feds when compared with what is sent to Washington. Yet Boxer and DiChiFi keep getting re-elected.


49 posted on 05/31/2006 10:12:11 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi - "The Road to Peace in the Middle East runs thru Damascus.")
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To: Mike Darancette
Can a State Legislature decide that a certain group only casts 3/5th of a vote. If not, why not?

  No, because that violates the 14th Amendment and the federal Voting Rights Act. I don't see how that applies to the discussion, though.

Drew Garrett

50 posted on 05/31/2006 10:12:45 AM PDT by agarrett
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To: NativeNewYorker

So in 2004 since GWBush had more votes NATIONWIDe but californias vote went to Kerry, the electoral votes would go to GWBush?

That totally disenfranchises the california voters!

100% of CF voters could vote one way only to have the electoral count go to the other candidate and make their votes irrelevant.


51 posted on 05/31/2006 10:14:30 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: kara37

That is very true. What worries me is that it could end up with a never ending Democrat monompoly on the Executive branch. That would make the U.S. like Canada was under the Liberals. All of the policies for the nation will be made for urban centers, even if they royally screw the people living in rural areas.


52 posted on 05/31/2006 10:33:19 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: doc30

read the article.

In essence the votes in california only "count" if they vote the same way as the majority of the USA.

Thus the state of CF has made their citizens' votes irrelevant.

This is not Majority of the CF voters, this is majority of THE NATION.


53 posted on 05/31/2006 10:52:18 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Beelzebubba
Originally posted by Beelzebubba:
"Of course, the statisticians show that it is essentially impossible to have an EV win under the current system with more than a 3% PV deficit."

Except of course in the case of President Hayes in 1876 who lost the popular vote by 3.02% and President Adams(6) who lost the popular vote by 10.43%...

dvwjr

54 posted on 05/31/2006 12:46:43 PM PDT by dvwjr
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To: HostileTerritory
The California Assembly has passed a bill giving all its Electoral College votes to the presidential candidate who wins the most votes nationwide.

California is one of the most notorious left-leaning states int he union and they have millions of moonbats who have bought into the lie that Gore won the popular vote in '00. He didn't. Thus, he still lost.

That's what I'm talking about. I just cut to the chase in my comment.
55 posted on 05/31/2006 1:24:48 PM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: DustyMoment
Ok, but I still don't understand your conclusion that Gore didn't win the popular vote in 2000. That's not a moonbat opinion but a matter of public record. I'm curious why you think differently.
56 posted on 05/31/2006 1:42:51 PM PDT by HostileTerritory
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To: NativeNewYorker

Fine. All of their congressional districts are now redrawn to cover the entire state. No more local representation, and all candidates run at-large. Like that would ever happen.


57 posted on 05/31/2006 1:45:57 PM PDT by ARealMothersSonForever (Political troglodyte with a partisan axe to grind)
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To: HostileTerritory
That's not a moonbat opinion but a matter of public record.

I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you telling me that you believe that Gore did win the popular election?

If you are, you could not be more wrong. If you go back and do the research, you will discover that late in 2001, an audit committee consisting of representatives from something like 9 major news outlets completed the 5 billionth re-counting all of the FloriDUH ballots and concluded that not only did Gore NOT win the popular election, there was no credible scenario in which he could have won. The margin may have been extremely tight and not to the liking of the MSM, but Bush won the 2000 election - both the popular vote and the electoral college.

THAT'S a matter of public record.
58 posted on 06/01/2006 3:20:54 AM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: DustyMoment

You really need to provide a citation. It sounds like you're confusing "who won the vote in Florida" with "who won the popular vote nationwide." Telling me to go do the research is just going to embarrass yourself until you give me something to back up your claim, which is unorthodox, to put it mildly.


59 posted on 06/01/2006 3:38:57 AM PDT by HostileTerritory
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To: HostileTerritory

My error, you are correct. I confused the re-count for FloriDUH's electoral votes with the national popular vote.


60 posted on 06/01/2006 7:45:27 AM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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