Methodists' focus on activism may be clearing out pews

Minneapolis StarTribune (aka The Red Star) ^ | 6/05/06 | Katherine Kersten - Columnist

[MplsSteve]

The United Methodist Church of Minnesota, which held its annual conference in St. Cloud last week, has a knack for detecting and embracing the "social justice" cause du jour.

When Minnesota Methodist leaders congregate, buzzwords like "celebrating diversity" are generally front and center. "I believe when you embrace diversity," ran a recent United Methodist advertisement, "you embrace God."

In the past, Methodist leaders have often focused on racism and sexism. This year, however, gay issues jumped to center stage. The Minnesota Annual Conference outdid itself, passing nine petitions on various aspects of the topic.

[fr_freak]

I tend to believe that churches are losing members in droves because more and more people recognize the absurdity of religious sects pretending to have the answers to unanswerable questions.

So, do you believe that those who have abandoned any religious belief are now happier and have a greater sense of purpose?

Frankly, I think that the prosperity and safety that has supposedly supplented any need for religion is an illusion. The USA has prospered and remained secure precisely because of the principled foundation that Christianity provides.

Only in the last 40 years or so have people really begun to drift from the church, and churches begun to drift from original teachings, and we will soon learn what the repercussions of that trend is. They are yet to be seen in their entirety, but we have gotten a taste so far: rampant sexual immorality accompanied by explosions in sexual diseases, the breakdown of the family unit and all of the associated social pathologies (higher youth crime, lower achievement, increase in single motherhood which continues the cycle). erhaps the most telling of the symptoms is the mind-boggling degradation of the nation's will even to defend itself. Judging by the last presidential election, we have roughly 48% of the population of the US who are against the US using military might in its own defense. The number of "Americans" who believe that the US deserved 9/11, or that the US even perpetrated 9/11, should tell you all you need to know about our national will.

Without such a will to defend itself, this country will eventually fall to other forces, whether they be terrorists, Islamic conversion, reconquista, or Chinese economic warfare.

[MainFrame65]

I'm an outsider - not just to Christianity, but to my own, very liberal Jewish family. But one thing I have observed that you might find of interest is that the symbol of your faith is the cross - the instrument of torture an death for the expiation of sin, in your mythology - rather than the extended hand that might be taken to represent the social gospel.

In my faith I have hundreds of rules to obey - yours has a different path, but the signpost is stark.

[AzaleaCity5691]

I personally think civil law is a better system. And French influence doesn't just exist in Louisiana state lines. My last name is an example of lasting French influence, as is my membership in several Mystic Societies. The reason that France went the way it did is because all of the sensible, industrious people left the country and went and built the central gulf coast.

[jocon307]

"I thought we were all Lutheran and Catholic with a small smattering of Jews. >8^)>~"

Oh my goodness, you've left out the Orthodox Christians, you are going to be in BIG trouble!

[lesser_satan]

Sorry, my bad.

[Uncle Hal]

I been been a methodist all my life. I live in a very liberal area (Sonoma Co., CA.) and our church is very liberal. I assume this represents the feelings of much of the congregation. Our church has been losing people for years. The average age of the members is quite high and they are dieing off at a rapid rate. There are not enough young couples becoming members to offset the reduction in members passing on.

[RinaseaofDs]

"I tend to believe that churches are losing members in droves because more and more people recognize the absurdity of religious sects pretending to have the answers to unanswerable questions. In past days peoples' lives were so difficult that they had to cling to hopes of a heavenly afterlife to survive. That is no longer the case, and the only church goers now are (mostly older people) going out of social habit, to make business connections, or because they somehow have managed to have miserable lives in a land of great prosperity and opportunity."

Okaaaay.

So God's Good News to Man has zero to do with it, right? You aren't positing the position that sin isn't really sin anymore, are you? I think you are of the 'opiate of the masses' breed, and think the religious use faith as a crutch. Not that drinking, fornication, or drugs are a crutch either, but let's not make such fine distinctions.

Man certainly isn't having the moral questions of his day answered any more effectively by science, or art for that matter. I just read a biography of Oppenheimer, who agonized about the faustian deal he believed he'd made in developing the bomb, as if his failure to do so would have kept the bomb from ever having been developed by either the Russians or the Nazis.

Having lived with certain sins in my youth, I can tell you that besides the superstition that such acts offend God, sin really doesn't feel very good after a while. Sometimes it can do permanent physical damage that is all to palpable. It can also be expensive, hurt people you love, and in a more anachronistic sort of way offend God and His Son Jesus.

Some Churches lose members in droves, and some aren't. Prosperity tends to make us believe that our faith in God, and the disciplines for living that come with the practice of that faith, were required by those that struggled early on our behalf. Now that we've made it, our belief in God and all that discipline are quaint, but antique.

It's called secular humanism, and that's never been a winning recipe for civilization. Societies based on it always end up the same way.

[ClancyJ]

What a sad view of religion.

That kind of religion is not a real religion - it is a social gathering for mutual benefit.

All you have to do is look at the life of Jesus - born in a manger, no social standing, no wealth, no honor and put to death by crucification and a crown of thorns. Then you will see that God has little respect for wealth, power, social climbing.

But, His Son sits at the right hand of God. His Son has had more power in this world than any with wealth, glory, honor, or social standing and has had that for over 2000 years.

So, what does that tell one about the standards of man - wealth, power, honor, social standing?

It tells me that there is more to life and eternity than wealth, social standing, good contacts. There is eternal life and I would spend time finding out what God told man to do to receive that eternal life.

But, all through history, man has ignored God, turned against God, rejected Him and refused to acknowledge that Jesus is His Son.

Wonder why man thinks his little views of the world are more true than what God has said for man to do?

[ravinson]

So, do you believe that those who have abandoned any religious belief are now happier and have a greater sense of purpose?

I was referring to the abandonment of churches, not the abandonment of religious belief. People have learned that they can form their own religious beliefs and live very happily rather than accepting any established religions and joining a church.

The USA has prospered and remained secure precisely because of the principled foundation that Christianity provides

Many European and South American countries with the same Christian foundation have not done very well. The U.S. has prospered because people have put economic liberty above religious conformity or anything else.

Only in the last 40 years or so have people really begun to drift from the church, and churches begun to drift from original teachings, and we will soon learn what the repercussions of that trend is. They are yet to be seen in their entirety, but we have gotten a taste so far...

Christian churches have been drifting from original teachings throughout their history. The social pathologies you list have always been around, and are really only big problems in those parts of the country where their is little economic opportunity due to governmental meddling.

Chruches have not all been innocent when it comes to social pathologies. For example, Catholic priests seem to have been a major contributor to child sexual abuse, and negro slavery was approved and glorified by Southern Christian churches.

I don't think many Americans lack the will to defend themselves, they just disagree on how to do that. Prosperity breeds a sense of security, perhaps false at times, but it beats the heck out of poverty.

[therut]

None of the liberal churches are mainline anymore. Most people have seen that what liberal churches preach is not the Gospel. They have forgotton people can read the Bible themselves and find the TRUTH. Jesus was not a political leader like Mohammand. He was not preaching socialim he was preaching how to be saved and redeemed .

[therut]

You are wrong. There are many young people in my Church. Very active with the Church doing all kinds of stuff. I find the most miserable people are those who have nothing but this life to cling to.

[Valin]

I just read this article in our employee break room

At work they only allow me to read the Sports & comics. otherwise I go on a 2 hour rant.

The lefties must be breaking keyboards with their angry reply letters as we speak. The numbers speak for themselves.


And when are they not?

[3dognight]

Thats absolutely true about my church. There are miserable lives being changed/renewed and it's exciting. The Word of God does change hearts and lives. Hopefully alot of the kids getting the truth into them at an early age will prevent them from making serious mistakes during their life.

[AxelPaulsenJr]

I can't help but think that if the UMC preached the gospel faithfully instead of social pablum he would have to know better. The first time I heard real gospel preaching I knew I would never go back to the Methodist church.

I don't know about the Methodist churches in Alaska, but here in Arkansas they preach the gospel of the saving grace of Jesus. How do you know for sure where you are that you are in fact hearing "real gospel" preaching?

[therut]

Well you know when they start speaking about choice, gun control, welfare programs, homosexual acceptance and direct social action. It is obvious you feel like you are at a lefty campus instead of Church. The hierarchy of the UMC is for all these things. Some local Churches are in the dark about where there tithes go. Research it on the net. Not all local UMC are like the liberal leaders. I wonder if any of the 70 Church members of the Presbyterians Church at home in AR know their leaders meet with Hezboalllah??????????

[Proverbs 3-5]

YUP. I quit the Methodists (in part) because of the national leadership's leftist bent.

So did I. I do miss the songs by Charles Wesley though...

[AxelPaulsenJr]

Well you know when they start speaking about choice, gun control, welfare programs, homosexual acceptance and direct social action. It is obvious you feel like you are at a lefty campus instead of Church.

Not at our local UMC.

The hierarchy of the UMC is for all these things.

Some are, some aren't. At any rate they don't speak for the average Methodist. Nor can they or do they tell us what to think.

Some local Churches are in the dark about where there tithes go. Research it on the net.

Already have, a very small percentage of what is tithed locally goes to causes that I don't approve of, and I am working to change that fact.

Not all local UMC are like the liberal leaders.

Thank you for admitting this.......

I wonder if any of the 70 Church members of the Presbyterians Church at home in AR know their leaders meet with Hezboalllah??????????

Not sure which church at home in AR that you refer to: At any rate I suppose that one could say that the Presbyterians were predestined to meet with them..........

[Warren_Piece]

At any rate I suppose that one could say that the Presbyterians were predestined to meet with them..........

LOL!

Our church had an associate minister who always snuck in "peace and justice" type stuff into his sermons. Later on, he came full out as a universalist. Then it all blew up. Thank goodness the Methodists rotate clergy, he's now spreading his universalism elsewhere.

I'd say our membership is about 60% conservative (biblically), 40% liberal/moderate.

It would behoove any congregation to be on the lookout for any speaking from the pulpit that is indistinguishable from the DNC or RNC talking points. Such a speaker is not very familiar with the teachings of Jesus (who was in NO WAY political).

[Straight Vermonter]

Although I'm Anglican myself, I can hardly wait until the ECUSA membership becomes so thin that it is no longer considered "mainline".

You don't think this is already the case? I believe they are well under 1% of the population now.

[ravinson]

I think you are of the 'opiate of the masses' breed, and think the religious use faith as a crutch.

I would say that church-going is a crutch for some. There's nothing wrong with a crutch per say, though, it's just that fewer and fewer Americans need them.

Man certainly isn't having the moral questions of his day answered any more effectively by science, or art for that matter

Philosphy uses science, religion, and perhaps art as well to answer moral questions. Why limit yourself to church teachings, especially when you consider that churches are primarily in the business of perpetuating their existence?

Prosperity tends to make us believe that our faith in God, and the disciplines for living that come with the practice of that faith, were required by those that struggled early on our behalf. Now that we've made it, our belief in God and all that discipline are quaint, but antique. It's called secular humanism, and that's never been a winning recipe for civilization...

I don't think the fact that people are leaving churches in droves is an indication that they've rejected a belief in the existence of God. Rather, I see it as more of a rejection of the notion that any church has a monopoly on religious truth. Also, there are probably fewer who feel a social need to attend a church even if they don't really believe that church's teachings.