7/16 Middle East Live Thread

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1666163/posts ^ | 7/16/06 | me

[BurbankKarl]

09:19 MDA: More than 20 people hurt in Katyusha rocket strike in Haifa (Channel 2)

09:16 Residents of Acre, Haifa and its suburbs told to enter bomb shelters (Israel Radio)

09:15 Tenth Katyusha rocket lands in Haifa (Israel Radio)

09:15 Explosions heard in Rosh Hanikra (Israel Radio)

09:11 Katyusha rockets hit Acre and suburbs around Haifa Bay (Channel 2)

09:06 Report: Three to five explosion heard in central Haifa (Israel Radio)

08:47 Chirac: Forces threatening Lebanon`s security, sovereignty must be stopped (AP)

08:41 Sgt. Tal Amgar killed on Navy ship to be buried 16.00 Sun. at Ashdod cemetery (Itim)

08:39 Chirac calls for `show of moderation` in Lebanon, says cease-fire needed (Reuters)

08:37 IDF denies report of air raid on power station south of Beirut (Haaretz)

08:36 Hezbollah says it fought off attempt by IDF ground forces to cross Lebanese border (AP)

08:35 Bush urges Israel `to be mindful of the consequences` of its military actions (AP)

08:19 Jewish man arrested after threatening to stab Palestinians in J`lem`s Old City (Itim)

08:15 Al Manar: Nasrallah to give an interview later Sunday to prove he`s well (Israel Radio)

[Fitzcarraldo]

18:36 Hosni Mubarak: Egypt persuaded Israel against land attack on Beirut (AP)

He tried to, or succeeded?

[RightWhale]

Nasrallah: We will continue as long as Israel continues

Inverted logic train. Israel will stop when Hizbulla is done. That might look overtly like continuing until Israel stops.

It's like finding your cell phone in the last place you looked.

[Pox]

If the Israeli government has denied making such an ultimatum, why should that so called ultimatum still be considered a fact? Syria would be flipping out and Iran would be bellowing at an unbelievable volume.

I see no evidence of either outside of their normal bellicosity.

Could you please post a credible source of that ultimatum?

[jhp]

I'd rather face the WMD these warring bastards have today than 10 years from now. This war is not as lopsided as in the past and we are witnessing technology adaptation compression. Now the Iranians can mfg crude cruise missiles. Soon they won't be so crude. Today Iran and Syria can rain down lethal chemical eapons. Again, while horrific, these will not be as devastating as the nuclear ones 10 years from now. Deal with it now please.

Agree 110%, did Nasarallah disclose any current enough info to confirm he is still breathing

[pgkdan]

The Democrat said that Israel was targeting civilians. Sellers took the guy apart piece by piece on

I saw that too and just gained a new respect for Bob Sellers.

[PattonReincarnated]

This might interest you InterceptPoint:

PF-135 Stratotanker 

US to Provide Military Weapon System to Israel

July 16, 2005 - Washington, DC - Anonymous Pentagon officials have disclosed the United States is covertly providing a new weapon system to Israel.  The weapon system has been under development since early 2002 and will be deployed ahead of schedule to aid Israel's defense.

Based on the the KC-135 Stratotanker, the new system with the designation PF-135 has a micro-nuclear reactor that superheats the payload.  Intelligent experts speculate that the payload consists of pig fat, hence the designation PF (Pig Fat) 135. 

[bannie]

This war is not as lopsided as in the past and we are witnessing technology adaptation compression.

Not since billyblytheclinton sold China our most vital national defense secrets.

[The Sons of Liberty]

You ,may recall, in the '73 War, Golda Meir ordered two nuclear capable squadrons of Phantom and Kfir fighters loaded with nukes when the battles were going poorly and it appeared that Israel might be overrun. At that point, The USSR attempted to send Egypt some type of nuclear materials(?), we detected it as it passed through the Bosporous straits and countered by going DEFCON 3. Fortunately, the tide of battle turned and the war ended.

What would be the tripping point in this war where Israel would decide to use their nukes? Surely, just having a few rockets hit Haifa wouldn't be sufficient, would it?

[Valin]

In praise of the human spirit

People who know me know that I am not the biggest fan of Human nature in general. In all actuality, this whole war -to me at least- crystalized what I always stressed to be the main aspect of human nature: Our insistence on killing one another. Since the dawn of time, this is what people did: They went to wars and killed each other. War, as far as I could tell from the world around me, was the normal state of world, not Peace. War is the reality, Peace is the ideal, either choose to be a realist or an idealist. That's all there is to it!

That being said, there is one thing that I always admired about Humans, and that is the Human spirit. Our resilience. Our refusal-against incredible odds- to just give up. Our ability to look the horror of the world in the eyes and tell it "F*ck you, I will live on!" That's also what we do best.

Even when faced with hate…

http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/07/16/in-praise-of-the-human-spirit/#comments
Click on link, do yourself a favor.

[InterceptPoint]

Hezbollah is the least of Israel's conerns at this point.

Focus on the operational issues and the tactical issues will resolve themselves.

I assume you are more worried about Iran and perhaps Syria than you are Hezbollah. Maybe tomorrow but not today. If Hezbollah is seen as winning the battle then Iran will sit tight. That is a bad outcome for Israel. If Hezbollah is seen as losing then Iran my act but they may decide not to. In any case today's job is to take care of Hezbollah. Trying to win this war with a strategic strike at Iran would not be advised.

[jhp]

Hey Pox, I know Israel denied giving the ultimatum, but there was an earlier source for this info, and i think it is telling the Syria is mobilizing right now. Take this info as you will . . .

[norton]

"Impossible...if you saw the videos of refugees pouring into Gaza from Egypt"

Does the concept of a 'refugee' FROM Egypt, pouring INTO Gaza not strike you as a bit odd?

Anyone not trying desperately to get OUT of Gaza is not a civilian in my play book.

('not a civilian' = target)

[jeffers]

Evacuate to where?

Talk to Clinton about unnipped buds.

Nukes are not a certainty or even a probability at this point, but I will say that they are.....an operational concern.

[SE Mom]

Oh GOODY!! There goes Anno Mys again..can NEVER STFU!

"Covert" "Secret" "Eyes Only" "Intel"

These are words that mean NOTHING in today's liberal anarchy of a media.

[KJC1]

I guess, that is the trick to keep people thinking that terrorism is the best way to go...act like it is their right, therefore, nothing to get all excited about.

That's my impression too. It was like he was trying to project an air of statesmanship and decorum. Unreal.

[jeffers]

You've already seen all you are going to get, you just didn't recognize it for what it was.

The ultimatum was issued with plausible deniability in mind from the beginning.

I do not have time to prove this to you and the results of inaccurate assessment will rest on the assessor.

Ignore it at your own risk.

[Pox]

I remember the ultimatum as well, and it was quashed by the Israeli's almost immediately.

If Iran was mobilizing I would consider it a credible "rumor", but that doesn't seem to be that case currently.

Syria mobilizing it's reserves is prudent in the event the IDF swarms southern Lebanon. They'll be sitting on the Syrian border with Lebanon in an attempt to coerce the IDF not to follow retreating hezbollah punks into Syria, IMO.

[RDTF]

This is a very good read with lots of background info

http://www.meforum.org/article/499

The Return of Hizbullah
by Eyal Zisser
FALL 2002

(excerpt)
Second, Hizbullah has succeeded in recent years, and particularly since the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) pulled out of Lebanon in May 2000, in building an impressive military capability. It has a rocket arsenal that includes thousands of Katyushas and more advanced rockets that cover the entire north of Israel.[2] Hizbullah's direct and immediate threat to the Israeli civilian population is greater than that of some neighboring Arab states.

Finally, and as a result of its territorial base and arms buildup, Hizbullah has become a powerful player in the region and enjoys much more independence than in the past. Syria, which once had an important say in the activities of the organization, has been brushed aside. For good or ill, Iran is now in charge.

All this has come as a cruel surprise to many analysts. After the Lebanese civil war came to an end in October 1989, and even more so after the IDF's withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000, these analysts predicted that Hizbullah would undergo a process of "Lebanonization"—becoming a Lebanese political movement, moderated by its local responsibilities. "Hizbullah has no appetite to launch a military campaign across the border, should Israel withdraw from the south," wrote one such analyst in 1998.[3] "Episodic attacks on Israel might occur from Lebanon, but the broadly popular resistance will close up shop when Israel leaves."[4]

It now seems obvious, however, that Hizbullah has not changed, and that it remains a radical and militant organization whose principal objective is to lead an armed struggle against Israel. The fact that in recent years its military power has grown to strategic proportions, with the aid and encouragement of Iran, proves that the Lebanese "veil" worn by Hizbullah is exceedingly thin. Sham "Lebanonization" allows the organization to continue building its military strength undisturbed and to attract a political following for future struggles, not only against Israel but also within Lebanon.

[backhoe]

Amen to all you wrote-- regarding this?

Within 10 years, given the genius of the Free Market and US ingenuity, I bet we could have the shale oil being extracted for a lot less than it costs now.

A few items:

Israel Presses for Oil from Shale

No More Blood For Oil Or Let The Persian Gulf Swing Slowly IN The BreezeJust got this in an email from IRIS Blog * Israel Presses for Oil From Shale * With oil prices hovering around $70 a barrel, Israel is pondering the use of its huge reserves of oil shale. Thanks to a technical breakthrough, it should be possible to extract fuel oil from shale for less than $20 a barrel, which could allow Israel eventually to cut its crude oil imports by up to one-third.

Harper touts Canada as 'energy superpower' in pre-G8 speech to business crowd

Also, a month or so ago, Neil Boortz read a RAND Corp. paper which claimed we have enough oil in shale, in Utah alone, to supply us with a hundred years of oil using current technology.

Once we started, you know the tech would improve.

[JimSEA]

What floored me were the figures the "Congressman from MA" used of 3 hez dead and 260 civilians. Where are the Democrats getting their figures from, even the MSM isn't that warped.