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To: Banat
Why don't we look at the period 1945 - 1998, or how about just 1968 - 1998?

1945 was an interesting period in Kosovo--the Germans had retreated north and the Albanian Balli Kombetar and remaining Serb Chetniks were now fighting Tito's partisans. Albanian partisan leader (and later commie dictator) Enver Hoxha even sent up his best commander--Mehmet Shehu--with the equivalent of an Albanian Partisan Division to help Tito. This engendered some unique moments of Chetnik & Bali Kombetar cooperation against their common enemy: the Albanian & Yugoslav communist Partisans.

Fast forward to the late 80s/90s and you get the four major events that got Kosovo to where it is today. First was Milosevic using Serb nationalism and particularly the situation in Kosovo to gain power. Second was Milosevic engineering the re-writing of the constitution to revoke Kosovo autonomy--this was what sparked the Kosovo Albanian declaration of independence. Third was when the 1995 Dayton negotiations and accord did not include the Kosovo situation--this was what discredited Rugova's non-violent approach and spurred the formation of the KLA. Fourth was in 1997 when the neighboring Albanian government collapsed and they had civil unrest and chaos--the looting of the Alb army depots & lack of government authority over its borders gave the KLA a source of weapons and a sanctuary. Revocation of autonomy & Serb nationalism were the casus beli, the failure of non-violence to get Kosovo considered at Dayton provided the motivation, and the collapse of Albania provided the means for the war.

Which is a long way of saying that it was major events that led to the war; not individual incidents of violence. Those were the symptoms, not the cause.

23 posted on 08/14/2006 4:46:36 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
I will repeat what banat said...Kosovo is worse off now then previously, mark. Let us look back to the Pre-1997 years.

How many deaths were there in 1995, 1992, 1990 or 1989 compared to 2006/current date?

24 posted on 08/14/2006 5:10:59 AM PDT by ma bell ("Take me to Pristine. I want to see the "real terrorists", Former Marine)
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To: mark502inf; Bokababe; tgambill
KLA was formed earlier in the late 80s but not formally recognized as the "KLA" when the media and foreign govts became more engaged in the PR and "support"...

The "revocation" of the Autonomy? Why would it be suddenly a suddenly recognized Autonomous Region when post-WW2, NATO-nations never recognized the internal boundaries/borders of the shifted boundary lines that Tito created? Those "boundary" lines were included in the new power shift move away from the Serbs in the early 1970's. All this after the Croatian Spring Offensive during that period. hmmm...

That autonomous declaration was not done in accordance to the "Yugo" Constitution making it mute.

That was done illegaly and done hurriedly due to his knowing it would further weaken the Serb political power base. There was much anger that the Croats were given more power then the Serbs were being stripped of their clout.

That was when the failed assassination attempt prompted him to rush/run it through in illegal fashion to get that auto/region a done deal.

In essence, the illegality ways makes that province nonexistance, but only in Tito's constitution.

You want to go deeper, we can go deeper Mark.

25 posted on 08/14/2006 5:22:02 AM PDT by ma bell ("Take me to Pristine. I want to see the "real terrorists", Former Marine)
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To: mark502inf; ma bell; joan; Bokababe

You forgot a few interesting tidbits in 1945....the Albanians formed an Albanian SS Division called Skenderburg Division. They massacred thousands of Serbs and Jews....with the promise of Greater Albania by old Adolf....Historical fact. Interestingly enough fast forward. In the Macedonian fight with the NLA, they formed the Skenderburg Division once again north of Skopje. They had 17 advisors from MPRI that had to be pulled out when Macedonian troops were closing in. This is also a fact confirmed by not only Military sources I talked with but also from several UN personnel in Macedonia. On, by the way, the Albanian Albanians did not have the same agenda or inclination as the Kosovar Albanians. This is well documented and loads of references......

Now, the beginning of Kosovo, this was initiated by us but introducing the Muh, into Bosnia to start the dismemberment of Yugoslavia. Sort of like putting another scorpion into the jar...and setting back to watch what happens.....



Now,


28 posted on 08/14/2006 8:22:02 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: mark502inf
Fast forward to the late 80s/90s and you get the four major events that got Kosovo to where it is today. First was Milosevic using Serb nationalism and particularly the situation in Kosovo to gain power.

What Serbian nationalism? Mark, the Serbs sacrificed their own state for Yugoslavia. They didn't have to - they could've easily gotten much of what was then in possession of Austria-Hungary (the whole of Bosnia, Lika, Kordun, much of Dalmatia and almost all of Slavonia). The Serbs and others in Kosovo & Metohia lived in an apartheid-like system, especially after the Amendments of 1968. The Albanians were effectively running Kosovo (1968 - 1989), and the discrimination was pretty much institutionalized. Scores of newspaper articles and reports exist from that time, most notably the NY Times dispatches by D. Binder. The Albanians were bent on separating Kosovo & Metohia from Serbia ever since the 1st Prizren League, which is half a century before Miloshevich was even born.

The Serbs were second class citizens in their own country, and those who were lucky enough to live elsewhere had to "voluntarily" subsidize the failed province, the "black hole" of Yugoslavia. Billions upon billions of dollars (Serbian taxpayer money) went into Kosovo, just for the authorities there to squander the cash. The entire post-war infrastructure of Kosovo was built by Serbia/Serbian taxpayers, since Kosovo Albanians never paid any taxes nor did they pay for any public services.

So, Serbia was subsidizing Kosovo, and at the same time had absolutely no control over that part of its territory and the Serbs and other minorities lived in constant fear for their lives.

The autonomy was not revoked or taken away. The constitutional amendment was voted on by the Provincial Government of Kosovo.

Yes, Miloshevich did use the situation in Kosovo to gain advantage over his rivals in the Communist Party - but had there been no "situation" in Kosovo, he wouldn't have gained power. Therefore, Miloshevich is the consequence of Kosovo, not the cause. Kosovo had been a mess for quite some time prior to Miloshevich entering politics.

Second was Milosevic engineering the re-writing of the constitution to revoke Kosovo autonomy--this was what sparked the Kosovo Albanian declaration of independence.

I have already briefly touched upon this issue. Miloshevich did take part in that, but he did not do it alone. The Serbian and Kosovo parliaments finalized the amendment.

Third was when the 1995 Dayton negotiations and accord did not include the Kosovo situation--this was what discredited Rugova's non-violent approach and spurred the formation of the KLA.

Kosovo had nothing to do with Bosnia. Bosnia was a Yugoslav republic, Kosovo was a province of Serbia. At the time of Dayton, Bosnia had already become an independent country. Kosovo was rightly viewed as some other country's (Serbia's) internal issue. Give me one good reason why Kosovo should've been included in the Dayton Agreement.

Fourth was in 1997 when the neighboring Albanian government collapsed and they had civil unrest and chaos--the looting of the Alb army depots & lack of government authority over its borders gave the KLA a source of weapons and a sanctuary.

Oh, come on, Mark! Albania never ever did much to stop the KLA from crossing the border, and they never did anything to shut down the terrorist training camps in the north. Whenever the KLA smugglers were caught, it was always on the Serbian side of the border. The weapons were also supplied by the BND and the CIA, as was military training for the KLA.

Revocation of autonomy & Serb nationalism were the casus beli, the failure of non-violence to get Kosovo considered at Dayton provided the motivation, and the collapse of Albania provided the means for the war.

Again, according to your distorted version of history it was Miloshevich who's at fault for using Serbian nationalism to repress the Albanians who then rose up and started fighting Serbia. The facts don't seem to support your argument as the KLA is nothing but a culmination of a 100-year-long campaign to separate Kosovo from Serbia. Miloshevich didn't appear out of nowhere and for no reason, and the Serbian population of Kosovo didn't just wake up one day and started fearing for their lives.

34 posted on 08/14/2006 10:43:18 AM PDT by Banat (DEO • REGI • PATRIÆ: http://www.SAVEKOSOVO.org)
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