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While US flying Becomes More Painful, El Al Continues Effective Security
Bettnet.com ^ | 8/13/06 | Domenico Bettinelli

Posted on 08/14/2006 1:52:34 PM PDT by marshmallow

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To: theDentist
You daughter's medicine isn't considered a national security threat. It was not possible for them to confirm what it was, and they decided it best to let you trash it vs taking a chance on your possibly sneaking liquid exposives aboard an airplane. Sorry, but they found that very scenario was going to be used by the Islamic terrorists in Britain.

If Marshmallow and daughter were not YMMs, then it was terribly stupid to take the Asthma inhaler away for ANY other reason.

And I've fixed your last sentence for you.

21 posted on 08/14/2006 2:23:55 PM PDT by Spiff (Death before Dhimmitude)
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To: DustyMoment
The problem is not TSA, DHS & the Bush administration.
Its the "Plague of Lawyers" that will spring into action at the slightest perception of discrimination. We have allowed egalitarianism to be such a sacred concept that we now blindly follow it to our detriment.
TSA, DHS etc bureaucrats are just reacting defensively to this plague. Look bureaucrat bashing is a favorite past time on FR but 99% of these people actually want to do the right thing when it comes to airport security. However fear of as a minimum having one's career ruined or as a maximum one's life ruined by the 'aggrieved discrimination victim' does not encourage intelligent vigilance. Much of this plague we have allowed to occur because we as a society have allowed the culture of victimolgy to talk root. (A lot of it is pure greed and classy envy on the publics part, where they look at a corporation or individual and see 'deep pockets'!)
22 posted on 08/14/2006 2:24:09 PM PDT by Reily
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To: marshmallow

BTTT


23 posted on 08/14/2006 2:26:09 PM PDT by Unicorn (Too many wimps around.)
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To: Argus

Same here...going on BA from here to Gatwick, and then connecting on another BA flight in Heathrow...going to be be FUN....


24 posted on 08/14/2006 2:31:58 PM PDT by USMMA_83 (Tantra is my fetish ;))
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To: Argus

You know how many muslims live in britain? The inconvenience wouldnt be to 'some' muslims, and the rioting in the streets that would follow would be unpleasant to say the least. You know what happened in bradford just a few years ago?


25 posted on 08/14/2006 2:36:38 PM PDT by ketelone
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To: MichiganConservative
In your scenario, I doubt that the blue-hair who has to blow up a plane or have her family killed is going to act just like she's on just another routine flight. That's where profiling behavior would have to be done. A few minutes of interrogation should identify that her behavior is a bit odd. But, if we think some TSA flunky is going to be able to do that, I think we're mistaken.

In my line of work, I fly a lot. I hardly know where I'm going to be going next, in fact, and fly at least twice a month. And I've observed that the security measures taken to secure air travel are just plain idiotic. They've secured NOTHING.

There is no end to the objects and substances that Muslim terrorists can bring on board an airplane and kill the passengers or wreck the thing. Our methods for screening for dangerous objects include only honesty (law-abiding, non-terrorists voluntarily give up certain items or substances for no good reason), X-rays for some checked baggage and all carry-ons (detects only SOME dangerous objects), metal detectors for passengers (detects only metal objects - does not detect ceramic blades, for instance), and very expensive explosives sniffer devices (detects only some specific types of explosive substances). NONE of those methods and NONE of the current methods would stop a Muslim terrorist from carrying out a slightly modified version of the most recent liquid/gel plot.

The only sane screening method is to target the population demographic that is responsible for 99.99% of terrorist acts. The only sane thing we're doing is deploying armed Air Marshals on some flights. But the policies under which Air Marshals must operate have reduced their effectiveness considerably.

26 posted on 08/14/2006 2:37:36 PM PDT by Spiff (Death before Dhimmitude)
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To: ketelone

Why should the threat of "rioting" prevent us from protecting airliners from terrorists? Right now they're inconveniencing EVERYBODY and there's no riots. Maybe the rest of us should have the uprising.


27 posted on 08/14/2006 2:39:17 PM PDT by Argus
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To: Sender
Be nice if it were that easy. And sometimes I'm sure it would be that easy. But there would be exceptions. "Oh, officer, I'm just afraid to fly."

And of course, there would never be any repercussions for mercilessly interrogating innocent little old ladies who were 'just a little nervous' about flying. (And if you don't think the liberal press would characterize it that way, you're living in a different world than I live in.)

But in fact, you're making my point. Even little old ladies need to be subject to scrutiny, so that the terrorists don't even try to use them as mules.
28 posted on 08/14/2006 2:44:22 PM PDT by Gorjus
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To: stylin_geek

If the inhaler has a prescription label with a name, it is permitted.

Permitted Exceptions: Baby formula and breast milk if a baby or small child is traveling; prescription medicine with a name that matches the passenger’s ticket; up to 8 oz. of liquid or gel low blood sugar treatment and up to 4 oz. of non-prescription liquid medications.


29 posted on 08/14/2006 2:45:27 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: Gorjus
Even little old ladies need to be subject to scrutiny, so that the terrorists don't even try to use them as mules.

MAYBE we'll do that if we see any actual possibility, plans, or attempts to use a little old lady as a mule. Until then, how about we focus on the actual perps and leave the blue hairs alone.

30 posted on 08/14/2006 2:46:01 PM PDT by Spiff (Death before Dhimmitude)
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To: marshmallow
I saw on a recent trip the Guardia Civil (Spanish police)at Barajas airport in Madrid interrogating 3 " middle Eastern" men & families off to the side with shoes removed, pockets turned inside out, documents spread all over a table, carry on luggage unpacked, before they were allowed to go thru security.The Spaniards profile - why doesn't the U.S.?
31 posted on 08/14/2006 2:46:38 PM PDT by Apercu ("Res ipsa loquitur")
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To: marshmallow
The new carry-on rules are a real pisser for multi-night business travelers [like myself]. We no longer can carry-on our 2-3 days worth of clothes + bathroom things. We have to check these and wait for baggage claim (while hoping that the bags aren't 'lost') which can tack on an extra 20 minutes to my travel time. In the business world, this is very expensive as I used to be able to use this time to go pick up my rental car.

Additionally, I'm sure many restaurants in airports are seeing declining sales. I used to get my dinner at the airport after arriving if I had an afternoon/evening flight, but I do this no more as I have to retrieve my baggage and can not re-enter to go to the restaurant.

32 posted on 08/14/2006 2:49:29 PM PDT by xrp (Fox News Channel: MISSING WHITE GIRL NETWORK)
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To: marshmallow
And they do it with a tool that the TSA, the Bush administration, and the entire left-wing establishment refuses to use: Profiling.

Amen.

33 posted on 08/14/2006 2:54:01 PM PDT by surely_you_jest
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To: All

I have a theory on the reluctance to profile.

First...what does a Middle Eastern male look like?

They can be all types of colors,...skin types...
some light, some dark, some may look like a black
American male.

Therein lies the problem.

If you think the likes of Jesse Jackson,Al Sharpton,Louis
Farrakhan are making noise now....imagine what will happen when they start pulling aside young American black males for
questioning before they board a plane.


34 posted on 08/14/2006 2:56:00 PM PDT by markoman (The man with the rubber glove was....surprisingly gentle.)
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To: Sender; kabar; sinkspur; GunRunner; zook; highball
The Israelis know how to take care of business. We only know how to take care of political correctness.

You've got THAT right.

35 posted on 08/14/2006 2:57:43 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Islam is a perversion of faith, a lie against human spirit, an obscenity shouted in the face of G_d)
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To: Who dat?

Everyone flying out of TLV regardless of airline is screened
like that. BG airport was packed the time I have flown into
or out of there.


36 posted on 08/14/2006 2:57:45 PM PDT by rahbert
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To: markoman
If you think the likes of Jesse Jackson,Al Sharpton,Louis Farrakhan are making noise now....imagine what will happen when they start pulling aside young American black males for questioning before they board a plane.

While I have some sympathy, I no longer give a damn.

37 posted on 08/14/2006 2:58:33 PM PDT by surely_you_jest
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To: surely_you_jest

Believe me.....I have no sympathy either.

It needs to be done.


38 posted on 08/14/2006 3:00:32 PM PDT by markoman (The man with the rubber glove was....surprisingly gentle.)
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To: Kirkwood

Well, great, I don't know that my inhaler has a prescription label on it. The pharmacy normally puts it on the box.

I'll have to call about it and make sure. Typical government garbage. Maximum inconvenience without increasing actual security.

I've hated flying since 9/11. Especially since I've been pulled aside and searched on more than one occasion, yet, I'm obviously a middle aged white guy who hardly fits the profile of a terrorist.


39 posted on 08/14/2006 3:00:42 PM PDT by stylin_geek (Liberalism: comparable to a chicken with its head cut off, but with more spastic motions)
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To: marshmallow
How do they do it? After all, they are target Number One of every Islamic terrorist in the world. And they don’t do it by making every passenger submit to multiple indignities and force them to fly bereft of their possessions.

The difference is that while the Transportation Security Administration screens out weapons, El Al screens out terrorists. While the TSA would not mind a weaponless terrorist on board a US flight, El Al on the other hand has no problem with a regular civilian with a potential weapon.

What an absolute load of crap.

http://www.iaa.gov.il/Rashat/en-US/Airports/BenGurion/InformationforTravelers/SecurityInstructions/

(FYI: I couldn't get the web page to work right with firefox)

If you fly out of Ben Gurion Airport in Tel Aviv, the recommend that you arrive three hours prior to your flight.

It is prohibited to carry sharp tools or utensils, such as pocketknives, scissors, nail files, etc, in your handbags or on your body.

Entering the terminal with a personal weapon is absolutely prohibited!

As the author mentions they are going to ask you lots of questions. They aren't going to only ask those questions if the person appears to be an Arab.

They do not just rely on profiling to pick out the most obvious candidates, the screen everyone considerably more throughly than we do here in the US.

If you think the procedures we go through here consist of suffering through indignities, you're going to face even more indignities there than you do here.

The author acts like flying out of Israel an American would fact less hassle boarding a plane than they do here, however the facts they present don't support that.

The author claims that profiling is used instead of the cumbersome regulations we use here. However, the evidence doesn't support that either.

While the government in the US avoids using the term profiling, they unquestionably do profile passengers looking for suspicious things. They endeavor to avoid messy, and generally useless legal battles by avoiding explicit "racial profiling". However, they do have different policies regarding citizens of different countries, and the FBI does investigate people who have a lot of ties to suspicious people in foreign countries, and such suspicions can land someone on the no fly list.

I'm not arguing against profiling. I think it's an excellent tool to use to concentrate limited resources on the highest risk passengers. I also believe it is a tool the TSA does use, though I think they should be able to use it more broadly than they have explicitly been allowed.

By contrast, our new government bureaucracy has given us pat-downs of 10-year-old girls, grandmothers forced to remove their shoes, mothers forced to taste test their own bottled breast milk, and hundreds of thirsty passengers forced to sit through transcontinental flights without books, music, or movies to pass the time.

Children can be overly trusting and susceptible to strangers asking them to carry something through security for them.

While suicidal terrorists tend to be young and idealistic, the elderly can also be extremists, and I've known a number of grandmothers that would be likely to carry something through security for someone who asked nicely without even considering the implications.

The foolish, and rather short lived, provision about tasting the contents of bottles was removed long ago.

Beverages are provided on flights, there no reason for passengers to go thirsty.

Books as well as electronic devices for playing music and video were not banned.

All because we don’t want to take the politically incorrect step of profiling. I’m glad political correctness trumps safety and convenience.

Profiling in Israel has not removed the need for banning certain items on planes there, and the more time consuming questioning they perform reduces convenience.

This article is seriously lacking in accuracy and honesty.

marshmallow: Apparently my daughter's asthma medicine is now considered a national security threat and as a result, was trashed.

If it was a prescription medication it should have been allowed.

They have now updated the regulations so that even if it is an over the counter medication it will be allowed if it contains 4 oz or less.

Their hastily made new regulations in the face of a specific threat did have some shortcomings. However, they are getting better at making changes to them relatively quickly.

Here's a couple useful links at the TSA website with more information. http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/new-items.shtm http://tsa-7.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tsa.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php

40 posted on 08/14/2006 3:01:21 PM PDT by untrained skeptic
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