There's the Truth, Then There's what the Saudis Say

Publius' Forum ^ | warner todd huston

[Mobile Vulgus]

The American left has been quickly losing their collective mind with an ever-escalating indulgence in wild conspiracy theories that began in earnest during Bush's first election in 2000. Granted, the left has been prone to wild-eyed conspiracy theories for decades, at least since the McCarthy era and definitely since McGoven ran for the White House in 1972. But the level of the touted secret cabals running the world behind the scenes seem to have grown exponentially in the minds of Democrats since 2000.

From Bush's AWOL status being successfully quashed and all paperwork being secreted away somewhere -- well, all the paperwork that Dan Rather didn't fabricate, anyway -- to the claims that Democrats in a Democrat controlled Florida county were prevented from voting, to a claimed GOP puppeteering of the Supreme Court, to the claims of "Big Oil" controlling everything, to an international conspiracy controlled by Haliburton, the Democrats have been spinning one theory right after another with dizzying rapidity. It never stops, Bush is killing blacks in New Orleans, Bush is controlling gas prices, he is even accused by Dailykos nutters of being the mastermind behind the recent E Coli outbreak in fresh, bagged spinach, of all things!

... yet paradoxically, Democrats also contend that Bush is the stupidest, biggest dummie president we've ever had!

Yes, they have gone over the edge with their fantasy excuses for their own failures. But, the Democrats pale in comparison to the utterly psychotic conspiracies that infest the Muslim world and naturally the Jews and America, the Great Satan, are at the root of them all.

The latest conspiracy theory proposed by the Saudis is that we Americans have launched a plan to falsely accuse, arrest and imprison Saudi students who come to the USA merely to attend University.

These innocent, Saudi students only want to better themselves and this claim of a Saudi student imprisoning his maid and forcing her into sexual slavery in Colorado is just another Satanic poly to abuse Saudi Arabian citizens, just another example of American racism against Muslims.

Of course, it is because of our great American racist desire to attack Islam, you see. Why, we evil Americans have no reason to be suspicious of any male Muslim "student" ... do we?

Heck, this guy couldn't be guilty even though the poor woman that was sexually abused and forced to manual labor for no pay came forward and identified Homaidan Al-Turki as her tormentor. No, not according to the Arabnews.com!

No it HAS to be a great conspiracy of American racism.

"Al-Turki’s sentence was unjust and unfair. Pleas to the US president were useless because the jury had made its decision. We grew up knowing that the accused is innocent until proven guilty. The Western rules nowadays assume that every Muslim is guilty and a terrorist until proven otherwise."

So, there it is, that evil US racism revealed.

So goes the faux Saudi outrage. But what are the real details of the case?

"Prosecutors said Al-Turki brought the victim, who is now 24, from Saudi Arabia in 2000 to work as his family's nanny and housekeeper in their Aurora home. Al-Turki is married and has five children.

The victim testified in court that she worked seven days a week and was paid $150 a month. She said Al-Turki and his wife kept most of that money. Al-Turki also allegedly took the woman's passport and sexually abused her.

"This is a clear-cut example of human trafficking," Decker said. "It's important he is put in prison.""

And what was Al-Turki's explanation about why he mistreated his "maid" so badly?

Al-Turki sad that he treated the woman the same way any observant Muslim family would treat a daughter. Then he railed at the court, saying that "the state has criminalized these basic Muslim behaviors. Attacking traditional Muslim behaviors was the focal point of the prosecution."

So, we see that this young student was just claiming to be a good Muslim treating his charge as he would a daughter. Of course, a "good" Muslim Father often feels no compunction to cut off a daughter's nose, rape her, allow others to rape her, or merely just kill her if that Father imagines that his daughter has somehow violated religious tenets, or caused him "dishonor" and few places in the Muslim world would make any effort to stop such a "loving" Father from showing his "love" so effectively.

That kind of "good" Muslim we do not need.

Still, I heartily endorse the main point about this case that the Arabnews.com advocated.

"I wish we could stop sending our students abroad and instead develop and support our public and private colleges in the Kingdom. Achieving international educational standards in our colleges and universities would serve our students better than sending them to a country where the administration clearly has a system that is unfair."

I can very much agree. I wish they would stop sending their "students" here, as well.

However, it is doubtful that the Saudis will stop sending their students here as their Universities do not teach a well-rounded course load, but focus instead almost exclusively on Koranic studies. So any Saudi that wishes to be trained for a useful profession must leave his home and travel to a western University to find that education.

Would that the Saudis could enter the modern world as the Arabnews.com seemed to wish. Perhaps we might see some of the world's current troubles subside?

But one thing is for sure. Muslims will not be able to address their own, internal problems until they stop blaming everyone else for their troubles. Sometimes a “student” really is guilty of a crime when accused.

[Mobile Vulgus]

The Saudis are surly our enemy.

[Zuben Elgenubi]

They shurely are surly.

[Thrusher]

Don't call me Shirley.

[sheik yerbouty]

They are usually surly, though not hugh..

[Mobile Vulgus]

Ha, ha

I meant surely!!!

... but they ARE surly, for sure.

[Prokopton]

The Saudis are Muslim. To them we are infidels subject to the treatment of infidels as established by their prophet Mohamed and the Koran including being lied to, subjugated, persecuted and, ultimately, killed.

[Mobile Vulgus]

The Saudis are Muslim. To them we are infidels subject to the treatment of infidels as established by their prophet Mohamed and the Koran including being lied to, subjugated, persecuted and, ultimately, killed.

Yep. Just like "good" Muslims!

[alloysteel]

But doncha know, it is a point of PRIDE with Muslims to dissemble when speaking to any infidel. It is no more of a sin to lie to an infidel, than it is to repeat gossip and fibs to your camel or goat.

Do you realize how much contempt the "morally superior" Muslim holds for the Christian, Jew, Buddist, Taoist, animist, Druid, Zoroastrian, or Wiccan? In their eyes, all these different religious practices are apostasy, and undeserving even of their consideration. Which means, any who are NOT Muslim, are by definition infidels, inferior beings not worthy of decent conversation, and suitable only as mere vassals placed on this earth to serve those who possess the divine inspiration of Allah, as made known through the words of the Prophet Mohammad.

[moonman]

"We grew up knowing that the accused is innocent until proven guilty"

When did the Saudis start this? When did ANY Muslim country begin to think this way? This is truely laughable!

[Tzimisce]

This is just more hate filled propaganda perpetuating lies against Muslims.

(/sarcasm)

[bpjam]

The Saudi's may be surly but I'm stuned by this news!

[GeorgefromGeorgia]

There are Saudis that are our enemies. However, I would not label the entire country as our enemy. I lived in Saudi Arabia from 1981-1985, with the Army Corps of Engineers. I lived with Americans, Palestinians, Jordanians, Egyptians, Pakistanis, Brits, etc. I got to know Saudis through work and while out on the economy. I never felt any Anti-American feeling. I studied the history of the country and the Muslim religion. What I found was a lot more diversity than you would expect.

First of all, regions of the country are culturally different. The Persian Gulf (Eastern Province) has most of the oil and the ARAMCO compound with thousands of Americans and foreigners there. Most of the Arabs there are Shiite, and less extreme. They have been exposed to the American culture and they are not Wahabbis. The Western part of the country around Jiddah and Taif are called the Hijaz, and until the 1930s were controlled by the Sharif of Mecca (and previously connected to the old Ottoman Empire). The Sharif was a Hashemite and this family is now the royal family of Jordan. The people in this area of the country are not as conservative and many are not Wahabbis or only Wahabbis in name. The Southern part of the country is influenced by Yemen and that area tends to be a mix, it has spawned radicals like Osama Bin-Laden, but there are areas that once had tribes run by Women (no longer). The most conservative and radical part of the country is around Burada, North of Riyadh. Also, Riyadh is conservative and Wahabbis to the core. The Saudi family came from the Riyadh area.

Large numbers of Saudis (especially from wealthy families) have been educated in the USA and are very pro-American. Of course, some Saudis that come to the West are repelled by our sexually oriented culture (just watch most of our sitcoms). Some radicals are created by this exposure. Most of the radicals have little knowledge of the West. I would hesitate to guess the percentage of radicals in Saudi, but I would imagine less than 10% of the population.

Saudis, like most Arabs have been fed anti-Israeli propaganda for decades, and when I was there, the Saudis and Arabs that I befriended would eventually get around to asking me about the US policy supporting Israel. They have a knee jerk support reaction for the Palestinians, which is based on supporting their kind. Most would say that it was wrong to partition Palestine, that Jews and Muslims could live peacefully. I would go back and remind them of some of the actions of the antisemites like the Grand Mufti and NAZI influenced Arabs, and they simply did not believe what I told them. I do think that once the Palestinians accept Israel that all the other Arab states will do so as well. The problem is that Palestinians are in true denial. They just don't understand that with their current course of action, they can never win.

As far as the religious nature of Saudis. First, they are genuinely religious. Most attend Mosque regularly, but many admit to not going five times a day. Many consume alcohol (I never met one that ate pork). Many Saudis that I knew thought the Mutawa (Religious Police) were fruitcakes. Unfortunately, large numbers are very strict. Saudi has come a long way since the 1950s. Slavery was abolished in the 1950s. There was not a paved road until ARAMCO came there in 1939. TV was banned until the Religious leaders realized that you could have religious services on TV (at first that is all they had). Now they have (as of the 80s) Egyptian soap operas. They do eliminate the kissing scenes.

Most Arabs from Egypt, Jordan and Syria consider the Saudis to be rich country bumpkins, not particularly conscious of their backwoods (bucolic) ways.

Don't get me wrong, Saudis are generally religious by our standards, but compare Saudi to Texas and as in Texas, you will find religious attitudes of different stripes. They have their strict Southern Baptists and hard drinking Episcopalians.

I will say that most Muslims have no intent on conquering the world by sword. Most will treat Christians as well as their other Muslims, but there is an aggressive streak in Islam not found in other religions, and that is the price Islam is paying now. The jihadists seek to keep Islam medieval rather than progress to the 21st Century. The struggle now going on in the Muslim world will take some time to resolve.

[E8Ret]

I e-mailed the following comment to "Arab News":

"I wish we could stop sending our students abroad..."

I wish so to, especially to the U.S. We have enough closed minded, fanatical people who've already arrived from Muslim countries, we need no more.
Keep your students at home, let them earn doctorates in Muslim Studies and History of Islam; no doubt the Muslim countries will continue to win Nobel prizes in science, medicine and the arts as they have in the last century.

[Mobile Vulgus]

Sir,

I appreciate your reply, but find you to have "gone native". Not that you want to BE a Saudi, but that you have allowed yourself to be wooed and fooled by them to the point where you seem to excuse all their crimes against humanity.

This bit of yours was telling..."Slavery was abolished in the 1950's"

Is THAT supposed to be a recommendation of their humanity!!?? When most of the Western world did so a hundred years previously???

I do realize that the religious aspect of the country is not homogenous in that they are not all Wahhabi extremists. But, the country is ruled by Wahhabi extremists and the people ALLOW this state of affairs, further attesting to the fact that they tacitly approve of Wahhabism.

The Saudis are not our friend and NOT a civilized culture. You have allowed yourself to be overawed by them.

[calex59]

I will say that most Muslims have no intent on conquering the world by sword. Most will treat Christians as well as their other Muslims, but there is an aggressive streak in Islam not found in other religions, and that is the price Islam is paying now. The jihadists seek to keep Islam medieval rather than progress to the 21st Century. The struggle now going on in the Muslim world will take some time to resolve.

Most of your comment is BS. This part doesn't jibe with the intentions of muslims that are demonstrated every day. Saudi has laws against Christians and the bible, not allowing a bible to come into their country for instance, if they are such Christian lovers why do they let these laws exist? Why do they treat women the way they do?

The whole article was about the way muslims, and in this case Saudis in particular, treat their women like property to be treated and disposed of however they see fit.

They are not peaceful as a whole, in fact they are a muderous lot that demostrate to the world on a daily basis just what they have in mind for anyone who doesn't convert.

[barb-tex]

But W keeps telling us that Islam is a religion of Peace .
So Peaceful that they go out and shoot an Old Nun in the back to prove just how peaceful they are.
barbra ann

[GeorgefromGeorgia]

My comments are based on personal experience and a significant amount of study of the Middle East and Islam. It is true that Saudi law does not allow other religions to worship in the country. However, the Saudi police knew of "informal" church services that were routinely held in expat compounds all over the country. The only time the Saudis had a problem with Christians worshiping there was when some Mormoms went out into the economy and tried to convert some people. I don't defend the medieval Saudi laws outlawing other religions, but I recognize that most Muslims do not have a problem with Christians.
One of Islam's big problems is the way they treat their women. This is especially true in Saudi Arabia. They are wasting 50% of their human resources. Even in Arab countries like Egypt, Morocco, Turkey etc. women have rights not that far from what we have in the West.
Read Bernard Lewis' books:
"What Went Wrong Between Islam and Modernity" He explains that Islam never went through the enlightenment.
http://www.amazon.com/What-Went-Wrong-Between-Modernity/dp/0060516054/sr=1-1/qid=1158690251/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-5523686-1205525?ie=UTF8&s=books

Also read:
The Arab Mind, by Patai
http://www.amazon.com/Arab-Mind-Norvell-B-Atkine/dp/1578261171/sr=1-1/qid=1158690378/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-5523686-1205525?ie=UTF8&s=books
It explains how much of Arab culture was influenced by the bedouin desert living.

THERE ARE Murderous individuals in Saudi and the Arab world. THERE ARE intolerant individuals as well. THERE ARE many customs that are very strange by our standards. HOWEVER, it is WRONG to stereotype. My Daughter serves in the US Army, her husband speaks fluent Arabic and knows many Arabs (he also supports Israel). He will tell you of many Muslims now serving in the military loyally fighting for their country.

[GeorgefromGeorgia]

I certainly was never overawed by the Saudis. I went over to Saudi with something of a strong anti-Arab bias. However, I decided to learn as much as I could about the country, culture, history and religion.

My point about slavery was to illustrate how far the country has come in the last 50 years.

I certainly would not give Saudi Arabia a prize for their culture or political system.

The country is ruled by the House of Saud. The Saud family did bring the Wahhabis to power. However, the royal family has had close ties with the USA ever since ARAMCO discovered oil in the late 30s and FDR met King Abdul Aziz on a warship at the end of WWII. The royal family has thousands of members, and within that family there are members that we clearly would not want in power (they are in the minority). Prince Naif, the Interior Minister is the most conservative. King Abdullah is very pro-American. Most of the royal family were educated in the USA. They are not jihadists.

[art_rocks]

I hope to live to see the day when we have Mr Fusion for our cars and don't need Saudi oil.

[alloysteel]

"We grew up knowing that the accused is innocent until proven guilty"

There are no accused individuals. Either the individual is captured, and under detention, and therefore guilty (doesn't matter what, the very fact that one is a prisoner, is proof enough that a crime was committed, charges to be preferred later), or is running around loose, about to commit a crime.

And a crime is whatever we can make up on the spot and say is a crime.

You see, Shar'ia law is a very loose concept, and untroubled by concepts of precedent, or civil liberties, or any of that inherent natural rights stuff. Therefore, wearing one's beard too short, or exposing just a little too much of a female's physiognomy, which of course inflames male passions to an uncontainable degree, or not displaying sufficient piety during obligatory time of prayer, or simply inappropriate display of pleasure at another's fortunes or misfortunes (the appropriate level is determined by the imam).

One simply does not know when a taboo will be breached in the minds of the imams, until it is too late.

It is a terrible way to live.