`Purpose' (Driven Life) pastor has pulpit for Obama (Rick Warren Courts Dems)

Chicago Tribune ^ | 11/16/06

[Mr. Brightside]

WASHINGTON -- Like many fellow Democratic politicians, Sen. Barack Obama is no stranger to the pulpit.

But in December, Obama will go where few progressive Democrats usually venture--to a large, conservative evangelical church that boasts a Sunday attendance of more than 20,000 people.

Even more unusual is that he'll attend at the invitation of megachurch Pastor Rick Warren, evangelical icon and author of the popular Christian book "The Purpose-Driven Life."

Aides to Obama say he will appear at Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, Calif., on Dec. 1, World AIDS Day.

"Sen. Obama has a deep respect for Mr. Warren's commitment to fighting AIDS and poverty," said Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor.

While he was working on his latest book, "The Audacity of Hope," Obama asked Warren to help by reading one of his draft chapters. Warren issued the invitation to Obama to speak at the church next month.

The messages that Friday will focus on AIDS and HIV, a key area of ministry for Saddleback Church. While many conservative Christians have shied away from AIDS because of their discomfort with its connections to premarital sex and homosexuality, Warren and his wife, church co-founder Kay Warren, have been vocal advocates for patients living with the disease.

Shortly before the release of his latest book, Obama issued a call to progressives to shed bias against religious people and to recognize "overlapping values."

[Sue Perkick]

Here's a direct link to that article. Hope you don't mind. Paul is in my bookmarks & I'm still up. :)

http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctor96.htm

[Sunsong]

he calls "reverse tithing:"

"…my wife and I made five decisions…we set up three different foundations. One is called Equipping the Church, which we use to train pastors in third-world countries. The other is called Acts of Mercy, which we use to help those infected with AIDS. And another one is called The Global PEACE Plan, which I'll share in just a second…The fifth thing we did was become reverse tithers…We give away 90 percent and we live on 10." (Underscore added for emphasis)

Seems to me that he is giving 90% away - perhaps all 90% to his foundations ( it doesn't really say). And he is doing good works with the money. He is not buying mansions and diamonds and gold. I find no fault with what he is doing. I think that one can't go wrong in helping others. I praise the man.

[Cecily]

Here is the direct link.

http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctor96.htm


If Warren really said these things about the funding of his foundations and his "reverse tithing," more information is probably around somewhere.

[Jeremydmccann]

I agree! Rick Warren is a new ager IMO.

[Sunsong]

We are not going to agree. I have adequately explained where I am coming from. I think it is wonderful what Mr. Warren is doing. I further think that condemnation and attack are doing horrific harm to this world. Those who hate and judge and condemn are causing great harm, imo.

Eternity is beyond the understanding of most humans. I am not in the business of deciding who God will judge and who He won't. But I am in the business of praising those who do good works and in being thankful for them - as I am for Mr. Warren. I appreciate those who help the suffering and work to see the people of Rwanda on both sides forgiving each other. I am truly grateful to see that happen. And to help those suffering from AIDS. That is a loving act. I praise the work.

[jettester]

So, you send me to a website/blog of someone critical of Warren's books. Let me see, who will have more influence over my thinking: A). A senior pastor of one of the largest SBC churches in America with over 25 years of leading people to Christ, church growth experience and scholarly degrees. Or B). Some guy who writes a blog that says this about himself: "I've been involved in ministry to men since 1995" - yeah, that is a real tough choice.

I appreciate his motorcycle pictures on his blog, but I would tend to find someone with a little more weight behind their critical thinking skills if I were using them as an object lesson.

[pby]

That is fine...praise the man, if you so desire.

But we are talking apples and oranges here.

You are talking about a man and we are talking about a pastor of Christ's church (one dubbed America's pastor, no less).

The man may be "doing good things" but the pastor is leading falsely, like a hireling in the sheepfold rather than like a good shepherd.

"And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve." (2 Corinthians 11:14-15)

So Satan passes himself off as an angel and his servants pass themselves off as servants of righteousness (people doing good works). Is this a good thing and something to be lauded?

How are you going to tell the difference between the good and the bad?

[pby]

I don't mind at all.

Thank you.

[Sue Perkick]

I love expository teaching. Churches have become so seeker sensitive these days, they're hard to find.

[Sunsong]

That is fine...praise the man, if you so desire.

So are you giving me permission? :-)

I praise him. You condemn him. We each make choices. I am happy with mine. I imagine you are happy with yours. So what is there to be so upset about?

[jamaly]

This proves that Rick Warren has flipped out. I hope the IRS monitors the Obama speech carefully, if one word of politics comes out of his liberal mouth, the IRS should strip Saddleback of any tax exemption status.

Flipped out or sold out? I'm not sure which.

As far as the IRS goes, Rick Warren had better watch his step. Everybody knows it is illegal for politics to be discussed in a white church; or is it just illegal for white people to discuss politics in any church?

[EternalVigilance]

I wonder if anyone has told Mr. Warren that while he was a committee chairman in the Illinois Legislature, Barack Hussein Obama blocked a law which would have stopped the practice of coldheartedly killing babies that were already born.

Jesus had some pretty harsh words for those who would abet harm to little children.

He said it would be better for them if they had a millstone hung around their neck and were thrown into the sea, if I remember correctly...

[jamaly]

This proves that Rick Warren has flipped out. I hope the IRS monitors the Obama speech carefully, if one word of politics comes out of his liberal mouth, the IRS should strip Saddleback of any tax exemption status.

Flipped out or sold out? I'm not sure which.

As far as the IRS goes, Rick Warren had better watch his step. Everybody knows it is illegal for politics to be discussed in a white church; or is it just illegal for white people to discuss politics in any church?

[RebekahT]

I don't believe John McArthur is a baptist; he is non-denominational "reformed."

[Cecily]

This isn't proof positive that Warren is pretty much tithing to himself, but it is interesting. Check out the last sentence.


http://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/content.asp?contentid=498


"Mr. Rick Warren
Author
The Purpose Driven Life

Mr. Warren is a participating dinner speaker at The Philanthropy Roundtable’s Annual Meeting on Thursday November 10, 2005 on the topic "Philanthropy and the Purpose Driven Life."

Rick Warren is an author and pastor. Time named him one of “15 World Leaders Who Mattered Most in 2004.” Dr. Warren is the founding pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, CA, one of America’s largest and best-known churches. He also founded the Purpose Driven movement, a global network of over 100,000 churches in 160 countries, and has trained over 350,000 pastors, ministers, and priests worldwide. According to Publishers Weekly, Rick’s book The Purpose Driven Life has been the bestselling book in the world for both 2003 and 2004, and is the bestselling hardback non-fiction book in American history. It has been on The New York Times bestseller list for a record 110 weeks and has been translated into over 50 languages. Rick’s previous book, The Purpose Driven Church, also an international bestseller, won the prestigious Gold Medallion Award in 1996 and was voted one of the “100 Christian Books That Changed the 20 th Century.” Forbes called it “the best book on entrepreneurship, business, and leadership.” Rick and Kay Warren give away 90 percent of the profits of the book to charitable causes, including their global P.E.A.C.E. plan, and Acts of Mercy, which serves those infected and affected by AIDS."

[pby]

I didn't condemn him.

As a pastor, he doesn't get a free pass. We are to test what he says and does in accordance with Scripture. If his actions and teachings don't line up, then he is to be held accountable.

Would you be upset to learn that the warm shower the Nazi prison guards promised you turned out to be a gas oven used for the purpose of your torment and extermination?

You would be happy and thankful...decieved right up until the point of destruction.

Would you be upset, if you watched people being duped and gladly get in line for these "showers"?

It is upsetting to see people lined up behind a false gospel.

And...You didn't answer the question. How are you going to tell the difference between Satan masquerading as an angel of light, along with his demons masquerading as servants of righteousness, and the real angels of light and the real servants of righteousness?

...but they looked like showers!

[pby]

You remember correctly.

[pby]

Certainly sounds like it...doesn't it.

[jettester]

I just went deeper into this blog site you sent me to - you know you really ought to do a little more research before you go promoting someone's site like you did. This "Stuart Brogden" and his motorcycle-picture webpage does provide links to his personally written stuff critical of Rick Warren's ministry and especially "40 Days of Purpose." He is entitled to his opinion just as I am. However, he loses any respect for his arguments when also on his website is a link to "his church" that goes to a website for "Houston NW Church." A quick read of this church's website (if this is really his church) shows the "Next Step Classes." His church says that people/members can "take the 101/202/301/401 classes" for their next steps. Who do you think came up with this concept? Yeah, that's right, Rick Warren - and this Houston church doesn't have the kindness (or honesty) of giving credit for the idea they stole/borrowed from Rick and Saddleback.

I have no problem getting into a good theological discussion with the next brother or sister, but let's call it what it really is - a disagreement or difference of opinion on theological or doctrinal issues. I believe we (in love) focus on the "major issues" and, with grace and mercy, honestly debate and discuss the non-major things of our faith. However, much on this thread has little to do with grace and mercy but more on innuendo and second-hand information (read: "gossip").

[Sunsong]

I have no interest in dicussing dogma with you. I am stating as clearly as I can that I praise the man, Rick Warren. You are free to condemn him and or criticize him all you want.

I have said and repeat: I think that hatred and condenmation do more harm in this world than just about anything. I am grateful that Mr. Warren is not another hater and condemner in this world. I am grateful that he is helping his fellow man and doing good works. I really appreciate that he is willing to give so much of his life to good works. That matters to me.

Whether I agree with his theology is not nearly as important to me. Same with you. If you do good work at some point in your life. If you help someone who is suffering from AIDS or if you persuade someone who is holding unforgiveness in their heart to forgive - and I am aware of it - I will prasie you, too - even though we do not agree as to what *the truth* is.