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To: scripter
Hey Scripter,

Warren didn't just read Cho's book...He read it and then told hundreds of thousands of pastors that he had read it via his pastors.com website.

But Warren didn't stop there...He had a recorded interview with Cho in which he asked Cho what Cho wanted to tell American Pastors and Warren asked Cho to advise American pastors and also to pray for them. By these actions, Warren implicitly endorses Cho.

After telling Cho that he had read Cho's book (The Fourth Dimension), Warren asked Cho if American pastors should be more open to praying for miracles. What does "miracles" mean here? What is the context? Cho's miracles are produced via visualization techniques (see description in The Fourth Dimension). Do you agree with Cho's "The Fourth Dimension" kind of miracle?

Why would a Christian "pastor" ever post an interview to hundreds of thousands of pastors (who are being mentored/trained by Warren), which includes the thoughts and advice of an occult practicing false teacher?

...Just "sloppiness" (like the "bad examples" (your description) from pp. 9-10 in the PDL) or done with purpose?

How do you reconcile Warren's above-stated (and documented via his website) actions with Scripture's commands to refute false teachers; mark false teachers; avoid false teachers; and etc. (Romans 16:17; Galatians 1:8-9; 1 Timothy 6:20-21)?

And...Saddleback's statement of faith has as much to do with the specifics that I have stated to you as Haggard's Church's statement of faith has to do with Haggard's recently revealed actions!

522 posted on 11/27/2006 1:32:37 PM PST by pby
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To: pby
I find your statements about Warren and Cho amusing. They're amusing because much the same could be said about me. I've purchased and read the Humanist Manifesto and talked about it online. I've purchased and read Darwin's Origin of Species and talked about it online. I've read a lot more on the subject and met and interviewed evolutionary scientists and posted the interview on the internet. I may even quote from them and ask questions about what they believe and why but I don't endorse their position. I have a few friends who are evolutionary scientists and some freeper friends that hold to phyletic or punctuated evolution, but I don't endorse any of it.

Can you be a Christian and firmly believe God used phyletic or punctuated evolution? I definitely believe so because such a belief is not a primary issue. It's a non-essential. The essentials are clear cut, but not everything is so clear cut as many try to make it.

Warren asked Cho if American pastors should be more open to praying for miracles.

I've already pointed out the interview web page doesn't list that question. Warren does ask: Do you think American churches should be more open to the prayer for miracles?

It's interesting that some people state Warren is sloppy but the statements they make about Warren are factually incorrect (i.e. sloppy). Some are blatantly incorrect giving the impression they were written for the purpose of deception. I'm reminded of Romans 2:21:

you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal?
Perhaps Warren would say to his detractors:
you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against sloppiness, are you sloppy?
I'm not saying anything other than it's ironic. Glass houses and all.

I think there would be a lot less concern over Warren if he wrote just a little differently without changing his thoughts.

Instead of saying:

Whenever God wanted to prepare someone for his purposes, he took 40 days.
What if Warren said:
Sometimes God would use a 40 day period to accomplish some task or prepare somebody for his purposes.
Some of what I'm seeing here appears petty.

It is very interesting that you're willing to examine Warren's books, his website, some people he's previously spoken with, but not the statement of faith at his church. Here is the statement of faith at Warren's church:

ABOUT GOD
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. Genesis 1:1,26,27; 3:22; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14

ABOUT MAN
Man is made in the spiritual image of God, to be like Him in character. He is the supreme object of God´s creation. Although man has tremendous potential for good, he is marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God called "sin". This attitude separates man from God. Genesis 1:27; Psalm 8:3-6; Isaiah 53:6a; Romans 3:23; Isaiah 59:1,2

ABOUT ETERNITY
Man was created to exist forever. He will either exist eternally separated from God by sin, or in union with God through forgiveness and salvation. To be eternally separated from God is Hell. To be eternally in union with Him is eternal life. Heaven and Hell are places of eternal existence. John 3:16; John 2:25; John 5:11-13; Romans 6:23; Revelation 20:15; 1 John 5:11-12; Matthew 25:31-46

ABOUT JESUS CHRIST
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all men by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heaven´s glory and will return again to earth to reign as King of kings, and Lord of lords. Matthew 1:22,23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5, 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14,15; 1 Corinthians 15:3,4; Romans 1:3,4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6:14,15; Titus 2:13

ABOUT SALVATION
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God´s offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sin´s penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith. Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9; John 14:6, 1:12; Titus 3:5; Galatians 3:26; Romans 5:1

ABOUT ETERNAL SECURITY
Because God gives man eternal life through Jesus Christ, the believer is secure in salvation for eternity. Salvation is maintained by the grace and power of God, not by the self-effort of the Christian. It is the grace and keeping power of God that gives this security. John 10:29; 2 Timothy 1:12; Hebrews 7:25; 10:10,14; 1 Peter 1:3-5

ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT
The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son as God. He is present in the world to make men aware of their need for Jesus Christ. He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation. He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual truth, and guidance in doing what is right. The Christian seeks to live under His control daily. 2 Corinthians 3:17; John 16:7-13, 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 2:12, 3:16; Ephesians 1:13; Galatians 5:25; Ephesians 5:1

ABOUT THE BIBLE
The Bible is God´s word to all men. It was written by human authors, under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. Because it is inspired by God, it is truth without any mixture of error. 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20,21; 2 Timothy 1:13; Psalm 119:105,160, 12:6; Proverbs 30:5)

That's a solid statement of faith. It's what Warren believes.

I want to stress that I don't agree with Warren on some things just as I don't agree with John MacArthur on some things, just as I don't agree with anybody 100% of the time. Who knows. I may vehemently disagree with Warren over some things, but what I've seen comes across as petty.

523 posted on 11/27/2006 6:02:27 PM PST by scripter ("If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." Romans 12:18)
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