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Idaho camper cleared in East Oregon shooting
AP ^ | 11/21/06 | n/a

Posted on 11/22/2006 9:27:42 AM PST by kiriath_jearim

BAKER CITY, Ore. -- A Baker County grand jury says an Idaho man acted in self-defense when he shot a man who was headed straight for him in an all-terrain vehicle.

Fifty-two-year-old Marvin Sauer of Boise shot Vancouver, Washington resident Everett Durst, in the leg following a Labor Day dispute near Phillips Reservoir.

The incident started when Sauer and his wife arrived to camp in an area where Durst and friends were riding.

The two groups had a disagreement and Durst later drove a quad runner to Sauer's campsite, stirring up dust and throwing rocks on Sauer's wife.

Matt Shirtcliff, the Baker County district attorney, said Sauer fired a warning a shot into the air.

That's when Durst started driving in Sauer's direction.

Durst's thighbone was damaged in the shooting, and a metal rod was inserted in his leg.

The grand jury deliberated for seven hours before clearing Sauer.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; US: Idaho; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: banglist

1 posted on 11/22/2006 9:27:42 AM PST by kiriath_jearim
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To: kiriath_jearim

Folks, when someone fires a warning shot... they normally mean business.


2 posted on 11/22/2006 9:30:14 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: kiriath_jearim

Seven hours? WTF? They paid hourly or somethin'?


3 posted on 11/22/2006 9:30:35 AM PST by pikachu (For every action there is an equal and opposite government program - Fig Newtons 1st Law)
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To: kiriath_jearim
Never bring a quad runner to a gun fight . . .


4 posted on 11/22/2006 9:31:13 AM PST by BullDog108
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To: pikachu
Seven hours? WTF? They paid hourly or somethin'?

They probably had a lone juror who wanted to hang the guy, OR they wanted free lunch!

5 posted on 11/22/2006 9:32:27 AM PST by calex59
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To: kiriath_jearim
Sauer fired a warning a shot into the air. That's when Durst started driving in Sauer's direction.

Dumbass.

6 posted on 11/22/2006 9:33:06 AM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: kiriath_jearim

God grant me the strength to shoot the bastard anywhere OTHER than the leg if myself, children, and/or wife are threatened.


7 posted on 11/22/2006 9:38:01 AM PST by lesko
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To: kiriath_jearim

Reads like Durst needed shooting.


8 posted on 11/22/2006 9:45:18 AM PST by School of Rational Thought (Republican - The thinking people's party)
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To: taxcontrol
Folks, when someone fires a warning shot... they normally mean business.

My niece, the sailor, jokes about "firing a warning shot into their bow."

9 posted on 11/22/2006 9:47:39 AM PST by BeHoldAPaleHorse (Republicans are told to court "the base," which translates to Arabic as "al-Qaeda.")
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To: kiriath_jearim
Interesting. "Durst" is one of the few names that we know is of Pictish origin. It's the antecedent of the English "Tristan."

The Picti (as they were called by the Romans, "Painted People") were the folks that Hadrian built the wall across Britain to keep out. When Roman legions say "Okay...we'll stay on this side if you'll stay on that side," you know you're tough. The Picts had a reputation for being wild men; I guess this scion of the Picts came by it honestly.

10 posted on 11/22/2006 9:53:29 AM PST by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: calex59
knowing baker county, they probably either wanted
a) the free lunch, or
b) to sentence him to 'community service' range time to improve his aim
11 posted on 11/22/2006 9:53:44 AM PST by verum ago (The Iranian Space Agency: set phasers to jihad!)
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To: pikachu
Seven hours? WTF? They paid hourly or somethin'?

Probably moderates. They do not make uo their minds, they just follow the group.

I can just hear the deliberations:

Juror #1: So, #2, what do you think?

Juror #2: Well, I am leaning towards innocent, but he could be guilty too. What do you think #3?

Juror #3: Oh, I agree with you! Innocent, or could be guilty, unless you think otherwise??

Juror #4: So what is the consensus here? I want to be on the right side of this.

Juror #5: I say guilty! Well, I am pretty sure he is guilty. Unless you think otherwise. What do our internal polls show?

Juror #6: Our Internal poll shows 0% Guilty, 0% Innocent, 100% Not Sure Until I Know What Everyone Else Is Going To Do.

Juror #7: I think we need to spread some patchouli oil, meditate on this, then have some miso.

Juror #8: I would like to vote innocent, but I hate to be so judgemental.

Juror #1: Well, we have been in here 2 hours. Currently the vote is 1 Innocent, 1 Guilty, Everyone Else Waiting For Everyone Else.

Etc., etc., etc.,

Moderates: Too cowardly to take a stand on anything unless it is with the majority.

12 posted on 11/22/2006 10:00:03 AM PST by technomage (Protest Voters are ignorant, immature, selfish people who have no capacity for long term thinking)
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To: technomage

FWIW: "Grand Juries" do not decide guilt or innocence. They determine whether criminal charges should be brought which could result in a trial. It is there a petit jury would make a determination of guilt. In other words, the Grand Jury decided there was insufficient evidence for the filing of criminal charges.


13 posted on 11/22/2006 10:25:39 AM PST by Res Nullius (Sometimes you have to kill a chicken to teach the monkey a lesson)
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To: Res Nullius

You are correct - from experience having served a month on grand jury duty. The grand jury just decided not to indict him on the charges.


14 posted on 11/22/2006 10:34:10 AM PST by momfirst
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To: taxcontrol

Am I the only one wondering if Marvin's middle name, or nick name is "Sig"?


15 posted on 11/22/2006 10:49:38 AM PST by 12GA
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To: kiriath_jearim

Sounds like Durst needed a good butt kickin' rude little twerp.


16 posted on 11/22/2006 11:18:41 AM PST by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: 12GA
Am I the only one wondering if Marvin's middle name, or nick name is "Sig"?

Dang, no you're not. But you were the next to the last post when I viewed the thread. I was going to make the same observation! I just love to wear my SigArms shirt to school. None of my colleagues "gets" it.

17 posted on 11/22/2006 11:37:15 AM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: Oberon

"Interesting. "Durst" is one of the few names that we know is of Pictish origin"

***

Well, if you don't pictish, den you gotta pictdat...just pictsomethin'...


18 posted on 11/22/2006 11:49:18 AM PST by kiriath_jearim
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To: Res Nullius
FWIW: "Grand Juries" do not decide guilt or innocence. They determine whether criminal charges should be brought which could result in a trial. It is there a petit jury would make a determination of guilt. In other words, the Grand Jury decided there was insufficient evidence for the filing of criminal charges.

Thank you for the reply. I know about that. But, it does not take away from my point: Moderates are those that are too cowardly to take a firm stand on anything, especially when it goes against the majority. Moderates makes decisions based on what the majority of people say, rather than standing on moral and values.

Personally, I believe moderates should be kept from breeding.

19 posted on 11/22/2006 12:07:11 PM PST by technomage (Protest Voters are ignorant, immature, selfish people who have no capacity for long term thinking)
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To: ExSoldier

My son used a Ruger lock on his bike at school. When the school LEO saw it he just smiled.


20 posted on 11/22/2006 12:47:25 PM PST by Hazcat (Live to party, work to afford it.)
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To: kiriath_jearim

The grand jury deliberated for seven hours before clearing Sauer.



I think it's cool when gun stories have players with good gun names.


21 posted on 11/22/2006 4:29:16 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: ThisLittleLightofMine

1. My husband is not a twerp or a dumbass. He is a 38-year-old engineer, Magna Cum Laude graduate from Washington State University, and a decorated combat veteran who nearly lost his leg in the invasion of Panama (1st Ranger Batallion, 75th regiment; Ranger tab, Purple Heart, Combat Infantryman's Badge, etc., etc.).

2. The grand jury did not deliberate for 7 hours. Associated Press writer Steven DuBois in the Portland, Oregon office messed up his rewrite. The grand jury heard 7 hours of testimony. I have asked the AP to issue a correction to their story as, among other things, they said my husband was "in" an all-terrain vehicle. He was riding a Yamaha Raptor (396-pounds) and not riding in a Jeep, or some other enclosed, one-ton-plus ATV.

3. The District Attorney of Baker County sold the grand jury a bill of goods. There were a total of 14 witnesses (including owner of a construction company, owner of commercial real estate, and a couple of grandparents) to what Mr. Sauer did, including our two small children. Mr. Sauer initiated the conflict with our party. He drove up to the area where we were riding, stopped for a minute or two (we were at an intersection and I thought he didn't know which was to go), then gunned his truck (with camper) through a zero-visibility cloud of dust and nearly ran over my husband and could have ran over one of the children who was riding a quad (there were four quads operating in the area and three of them had children aged 15 and under riding on them). After Mr. Sauer's stunt, the men in our party went to where Mr. Sauer had parked and told him he could have killed one of our children. Mr. Sauer ranted that we were riding in a protected area.

4. MR. SAUER DID NOT FIRE A WARNING SHOT. A person would, indeed, have to be stupid to not react appropriately to a warning shot. Mr. Sauer was convinced that we were riding our quads in an area that was a protected wildlife preserve (It was not. He was mistaken). He was taking photos of us and my husband rode near him to give him something to take a photo of - to be a jerk, sure, but that should not get a person shot. While my husband was spinning a cookie in the middle of the road, Mr. Sauer fired three quick shots at him with a handgun loaded with hollow-points. He missed with the first and third and nearly killed him with the second. His femur was shattered and his femoral artery was near-fatally damaged. He lost half of his blood – most of it in the gravel road between where he was shot and getting back to our friends’ Expedition - and his surgeon was very impressed that he even lived.

5. After Mr. Sauer shot my husband, he hopped in his truck and drove down the road to where I was loading up my husband of 17 years, trying to run us over. A friend in another vehicle put himself between us.

6. Mr. Sauer tried to prevent us from getting to the hospital. He chased us for 35-miles on a winding, two-lane highway, keeping within a few car lengths of us while we were doing 80+ MPH. He told the police he was heading into town at the same time as us. In a Ford with a large cab-over camper.

My husband, my children, our friends, their children - we all were victimized by Mr. Sauer that day. And we were further victimized by the crap that Mr. Shirtcliff (Baker County DA) presented to the grand jury. There is a saying that "you could indict a ham sandwich" - if that's what the DA wants, or you could NOT indict an attempted murderer. Baker County is a very small county. Prosecuting Mr. Sauer would likely have wiped out their entire budget. They would have needed experts to tell them that the x-rays of my husband’s leg do, indeed, show that the bullet entered his thigh from the side and back, that’s why there are all of the nifty little lead fragments from his hollow-point behind my husband’s knee and the point of entry is in his thigh. Not center of mass, nor elsewhere in the front of his body. Ever try to run over something (a log, or tree root on the trail) with your body contorted so that your thigh is facing forward and your knee is facing almost behind you? You’d crash.

This case, though there isn’t one now, is a complete and total injustice. Mr. Sauer is not a hero for protecting his wife and himself. They didn’t need protecting. We were having a wonderful day until that guy drove his truck into the middle of our group and started causing problems.

My husband will be in pain for the rest of his life and will likely never regain full use of his foot due to nerve damage, and may even loose his job because it’s hard to think clearly or even sleep when you’re in constant pain.

Yippee for Mr. Sauer. My hero.

Here’s your tip for the day: don’t believe everything you read. And if you do, wait until you get written about in the paper and it’s all screwed up. Nothing like having lies written about you or a loved one. And nobody cares because the victim always says “but it wasn’t my fault!”

Have a great evening. It'll be a long time before we do.


22 posted on 11/23/2006 9:39:05 PM PST by Wife of the Victim (Comments from the victim's wife)
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To: Wife of the Victim
You have your point of view but it seems others see it differently. For the record I never used any obscenities towards your husband and I don't appreciate you assigning them to me in your post. I'm sorry all of this has happened to you and the other party involved. In fairness let the other readers read this report.


Here's how the events that led to the shooting unfolded, according to Shirtcliff:

Durst, his wife and several friends were camping at the South Shore Campground near Phillips Reservoir on Labor Day weekend and had been riding the quad runners near the east end of the reservoir.

Sauer drove his pickup truck and camper into an area where Durst and his party were riding. Sauer and his wife, Debra, also were camped in the area and were returning to their campsite when they saw Durst and his friends riding in an area marked "no motorized vehicles."

Durst and two other men confronted Sauer near his camp. After leaving the area where Sauer was parked, Durst came back riding a quad runner and began spinning the vehicle in circles, stirring up dust and throwing rocks on Sauer's wife.

She yelled for her husband, but he could not see her because of the dust in the air. Shirtcliff said Sauer became concerned for his wife and moved toward her and Durst, firing a warning shot into the air with his 9 mm handgun.

Durst then stopped spinning the vehicle in circles and began driving in Sauer's direction, Shirtcliff said. Sauer said he believed Durst was going to run him over with the quad runner, so he fired his gun, hitting Durst in the left leg.

After the shooting, both parties left the area, traveling toward Baker City, Shirtcliff said. Police met them on Highway 7 near the Unity Junction. Durst was taken to St. Elizabeth Health Services and later was flown by air ambulance to Boise. Sauer was detained and interviewed by police. Members of the Baker County Major Crime Team investigated.

During the grand jury session, Oregon State Police Sr. Trooper Scott Skinner of Ontario reconstructed the scene. He used charts and photographs to show where blood and other physical evidence were found, Shirtcliff said. Other witnesses, including Sauer and Durst, also were interviewed.
23 posted on 11/24/2006 3:29:59 PM PST by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: kiriath_jearim; abcraghead; aimhigh; Archie Bunker on steroids; bicycle thug; blackie; ...

Oregon Ping

Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Oregon Ping List.

24 posted on 11/27/2006 8:28:39 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: technomage

Funny, but I can assure you there is no miso in Baker County. I suspect they had a public school teacher on the jury that was holding out for a guilty, the rest of the inhabitants are the shoot, shovel and shut up types.

OTH, one should not discount the free lunch theory.


25 posted on 11/28/2006 7:27:15 AM PST by Valpal1 (Big Media is like Barney Fife with a gun.)
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To: Valpal1
OTH, one should not discount the free lunch theory.

LOL

26 posted on 11/28/2006 8:04:47 AM PST by technomage (Protest Voters are ignorant, immature, selfish people who have no capacity for long term thinking)
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To: Wife of the Victim

Well, were you or were you not riding in a prohibited area? Not that it makes it right on that reason alone to shoot a person, just curious. Disobeying the rules/law tells you a lot about a person's demeanor.


27 posted on 11/28/2006 11:34:02 AM PST by daybreakcoming
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To: Wife of the Victim

I feel compelled to respond to Mrs. Durst as she has raised several interesting points.

1. I have the utmost respect for the commitment and sacrifices of those that have served our country in the military forces. And it also takes great commitment to graduate Magna Cum Laude. However, neither of those accomplishments stops someone from being a bully prone to violence and that is exactly what Mr. Durst is.
2. Your husband was riding “on” a Yamaha Raptor racing ATV. The only dust on the road that could have caused confusion for anyone was created by Mr. Durst coming out of the rangeland, jumping the burm at the side of the road and spinning circles in front of our pickup on the gravel road that we were trying to drive down. The children were off the road riding on the rangeland.
3. When three adult men came down the road to talk to us, there wasn’t anything said about the children. They were extremely agitated and belligerent that we had driven through their group. They let us know that they were blocking the road and we would “Play hell getting out” and Mr. Durst yelled “I’m going to kick your ass old man”. We were parked at the end of a dead end road and there wasn’t any other way out. When Mr. Durst came back down the road into our camp about 2 minutes later riding his racing ATV at a high rate of speed and attacked us, we were reasonable in assuming our lives were in danger.
4. Yes Marvin fired a warning shot, someone from Durst’s own party testified to that fact during grand jury. After the warning shot, Mr. Durst turned his quad and rode straight towards Marvin. Again someone from Durst’s own party testified to that. There were two rounds missing from the clip along with two empty casings retrieved by OSP at the scene.
5. When we tried to leave the area to go to the Sheriff’s office, the road was blocked with vehicles and they were not going to let us through. Even though we advised them we wanted to go to the Sheriff’s office and report the incident, it was still a couple of minutes before someone in the Durst party told the others to move their vehicles so that we could get through.
6. Anyone familiar with the area and highway know that a large pickup and camper isn’t able to drive the road at 80 mph and it was only 16.1 miles (verified with a GPS) from the location of the shooting until traffic was stopped on the highway. When we were stopped, we were a dozen or so vehicles behind Durst. Because of the false 911 call placed by someone in Durst’s party, we were approached aggressively on the highway by law enforcement officials with guns drawn and taken into custody.
7. The Durst party had barricaded the road and threatened us with bodily harm. They had total control of the situation. Marvin doesn’t consider himself a hero for his actions. He did what was necessary given the life-threatening circumstances.
8. The Oregon State Police and the Baker County Sheriff’s office investigated the incident and in addition to the Baker County District Attorney’s office and citizens of Baker County felt Marvin’s actions were reasonable
9. Everyone involved in this incident lost, there were no winners. Especially the children that were encouraged to vandalize federal property, witnessed the intimidation and terrorizing actions of the adults in their party and witnessed the serious consequences for those actions.
10. And Mrs. Durst is right; no one likes to have lies written about yourself or a loved one. And the victim always says “but it wasn’t my fault!”. But who is really the victim?


28 posted on 11/29/2006 9:50:26 AM PST by Another Wife
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To: All

Interesting exchange of perspectives...


29 posted on 11/29/2006 10:02:19 AM PST by jaydubya2
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