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A Vote for Rudy: Why Giuliani should be president
National Review ^ | 12/18/2006 | Richard Bookhiser

Posted on 12/08/2006 2:36:29 PM PST by Uncledave

A Vote for Rudy Why Giuliani should be president

RICHARD BROOKHISER

I have voted against Rudy Giuliani, and I have voted for him. Voting for him is better; it’s what I hope conservatives, Republicans, and Americans will do in 2008.

Giuliani formed a presidential exploratory committee after the midterm elections, formally entering campaign land, in which every utterance by and about him will be analyzed and its potential effect polled. Not that it hasn’t been going on for years. My favorite of the early reax to Rudy was flagged by columnist Deroy Murdock: An anti-Giuliani website, SayNoToRudy.org, posted by social conservatives in Ohio, pulled the plug on itself after deciding that “Mr. Giuliani is truly a committed Republican and an accomplished conservative on many issues.” But in estimating Giuliani’s worth it is less useful to say what people say about him; more useful to examine his past, and his character.

Giuliani won his first election in 1993, in his second race for mayor of New York. He had made his name as a scourge of high-profile criminals when he was U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York (1983–9), hammering the five families, crooked Democratic bosses, and Michael Milken. Yet conservatives had reason not to vote for him: His social views were liberal — he was for abortion and gay rights — and his opinions on political economy were untried. He ran with the endorsement of New York’s tiny Liberal party. To run against him, the less-tiny Conservative party picked George Marlin, a scholarly Catholic, and an investment banker who knew his financial nuts and bolts. (He is also a friend of mine.) Marlin could only tip the election to Democratic incumbent David Dinkins, but he made the case for the politics of purity: Hold out until we get Mr. Right, instead of holding our noses in the voting booth.

I heeded Marlin’s call, and so cast the unwisest vote of my life. Giuliani won in a close race, and then proceeded to save the city. When I see the shoals of kids in Union Square, fresh from their new NYU dorms or packed like sardines in nearby apartments, I know they cannot imagine what the square was like in 1993, when they were toddlers: raggedy bushes, lawns of packed dirt, and hollow-eyed weirdos muttering “Smokes, smokes.” New York’s poor neighborhoods were far worse, as innocents were robbed, murdered, and felled by the stray fusillades of drug dealers.

Everyone acknowledges Giuliani’s achievement. (Perhaps the most eloquent tribute is the silent imitation of his successor, Michael Bloomberg, who, despite his billionaire’s arrogance, has continued Giuliani’s success by continuing with his methods.) But how Giuliani succeeded initially is still not well understood.

Rudolph GiulianiAdmedia/Sipa The crime position of conservatives since the Sixties was simple: Jail the crooks. Candidate Marlin told audiences he would “put them on barges” if he had to. Yet Mario Cuomo, New York’s liberal Democratic governor, was building prisons at a great rate, and still the crime rate soared. The solution to New York’s (and the nation’s) crime problem lay in asking which crooks should be pursued, and what conclusions could be drawn from their activity. A revolution in policing had begun with a pair of academics, George Kelling and James Q. Wilson, and a handful of smart cops in New York and Boston — William Bratton, Jack Maple, John Timoney. They emphasized the importance of recapturing the public space by nabbing petty offenders who often turned out to be major ones, and by tracking the ebb and flow of crime patterns daily, the better to react quickly. But you had to have your ears open to know this was going on. City Journal, the policy magazine of the conservative urban-affairs think tank the Manhattan Institute, ran articles by Kelling and others on the new policing in the early Nineties. Fred Siegel, America’s only witty urbanologist, brought them to Mayor Dinkins’s attention. “He brushed me off.”

Not Giuliani. “He is much more wonkish and intellectual than people give him credit for,” Siegel says. “Because of the tough-guy exterior, they don’t notice. There is a lot of Newt in him: Let’s take this apart and see how it works.” Siegel also calls him “a Republican Clinton.” Clinton, who never held a position he would not betray? Siegel admits the difference. “Giuliani is not poll first and act later. He is, Let me figure this out and bring people along.”

The mayor of New York, unlike other mayors, is a powerful official, but he does not operate in a vacuum. Giuliani showed what Siegel calls “administrative imagination,” looking for “effective levers” in the bureaucracy, as opposed to “formal” ones. He cultivated members of the City Council — small fry, compared with congressmen, but with egos equally big. The courts he waited out. They were “wired for the ACLU,” as Siegel puts it, so Giuliani would stake out a position — e.g., zoning XXX shops into remote corners — then fight delaying actions when his policies were challenged. In the court of public opinion, he waged war on liberalism, as articulated by the New York Times. “He mocked them,” says Siegel, “he made fun of their assumptions.”

A FATAL DAY Despite his success and a smashing reelection in 1997 (I supported him this time, along with 57 percent of the voters), Giuliani’s two terms were boisterous. Imagine eight years of macaca wars. Then came 9/11.

Although everyone was surprised by it, Giuliani was well positioned to grasp what had happened, and to keep a grip on his understanding as the years passed. Giuliani had spoken of the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center in his first mayoral inaugural address, in a paean to Gotham spunk (“New Yorkers of the 1990s have the same ingenuity, sensitivity, talent, and courage that our ancestors had in building our great city”). The methods he had used to fight the mob turned out to be essential in cracking the Jersey City terror cell that planned the 1993 bombing, and other attacks. Andy McCarthy, lead prosecutor of Omar Abdel-Rahman, the Blind Sheik, says that the Justice Department used Giuliani’s “RICO paradigm,” not focusing on “foot soldiers” but “peeling back the case” to “big organizations in time and space.” Most important was Giuliani’s moral clarity. Siegel’s wonk coexists with a man of passion. Giuliani “saw this issue early on as very black and white,” says McCarthy. “Part of what people who don’t like Rudy don’t like about him is how headstrong he is.” In 1995 Giuliani ejected Yasser Arafat from a Lincoln Center concert honoring the 50th anniversary of the United Nations. “Maybe we should wake people up to the way this terrorist is being romanticized.” After 9/11 he returned $10 million from a Saudi prince who had suggested that our Palestinian policy had helped cause the attack. In his speeches Giuliani dates the run-up to 9/11 from the 1985 murder of wheelchair-bound Leon Klinghoffer by Palestinian hijackers.

Then there is the x of leadership, which is more than smarts or passion, or even both together. Woody Allen said 80 percent of success is showing up. One hundred percent of leadership is showing up, and doing the right thing — and doing it again, and again, and again. As the years pass, more and more of those kids in Union Square cannot imagine having been in Union Square themselves in the days and weeks after 9/11, and what a witless mob we all were then. The firemen and cops wrote their heroism in ash. Giuliani told the rest of us that we were brave, and thereby encouraged us to be so. The one mistake he made in the aftermath was dallying with the possibility that Albany might waive New York City’s two-term limit, thus allowing him to run again (the terrorists had struck on Primary Day for the 2001 election). George Washington would not have made that mistake, but he couldn’t have done the rest of it better.

As in 1993, there are problems. Do you have a few hours? Giuliani is down-the-line pro-abortion, including even partial-birth abortions. “I don’t see my position on that changing,” he said in 1999. He opposes a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. “I don’t think it’s ripe for decision at this point,” he said in 2004. “I certainly wouldn’t support [a ban] at this time.” As mayor of New York he administered some of the nation’s toughest laws against gun ownership. His sabbatical from office-holding has allowed him to duck out of the white-hot immigration debate of the last year, but his long-term position has been refried Emma Lazarus. Siegel, his great booster, told National Review Online that Giuliani’s lax enforcement of immigration laws allowed “several of the [9/11] hijackers to operate comfortably in Brooklyn only a few blocks from my house.”

Then there are the personal problems, which are sometimes also political. Giuliani’s first marriage ended with an annulment that was risible even by the standards of the Catholic Church in modern America (he realized, after 14 years, that he and his wife were second cousins). His second marriage exploded in an ugly divorce. The third time may be the charm: Judith Nathan seems to have humanized him a bit, as did a brush with prostate cancer, the killer of his father. He needs humanizing. His ferocious dedication is the obverse of rigidity and repression. Did he repress his memory of his father’s criminal past when he went through his FBI clearances?

His personality is all of a piece. His wife may retrofit some virtues on him, but no one else will. His political problems sit there like turds in a punch bowl. What can social conservatives make of them?

Giuliani left himself some wiggle room in his remarks on gay marriage (“at this point,” “at this time”), and a casuist could find it on partial-birth abortion (“I don’t see . . .”). More important, all of his radioactive positions, except on immigration, might be modified by the men and women he nominated as judges. On the eve of the mid-term elections, Giuliani hailed Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Alito as model judges, “principled individuals who can be trusted to defend the original intent of the Constitution rather than trying to legislate their own political beliefs from the bench.” He called their appointments “signs of promises kept.”

Social conservatives will be keen to know whom Giuliani will promise to appoint. They already know where he is coming from, and many of them seem to support him nonetheless. The idea that Giuliani’s strong poll numbers will blow away once people learn his whole record is probably a fantasy. He has been on the national stage for 13 years, and what people don’t know they can infer from his incorrigible New York-ness. Many social conservatives have already made a calculation about leadership. The Romans said that in war the laws are silent. Neither Christians nor humanists can believe that. But in war one wants a war leader, who may be otherwise unacceptable. Early in World War II England picked a washed-up journalist with a lot of sleazy friends.

Rudy Giuliani saved a city with a larger population than Arizona, Massachusetts, or Virginia, the states of John McCain, Mitt Romney, and George Allen. He helped city and country take a harder blow than Pearl Harbor. These are two serious public achievements, which are two more than anyone else in the 2008 race, Republican or Democrat, can show. Achievement is not an infallible guide to performance in office. Abraham Lincoln, wrote the New York diarist George Templeton Strong, was nominated in 1860 “because he cut a great many rails,” and he did fine. But achievement or the lack of it is all fate lets us see of our candidates in advance. You can choose a leader. Or you can choose someone else.

Mr. Brookhiser, an NR senior editor, is the author, most recently, of What Would the Founders Do? Our Questions, Their Answers.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2008; antifamily; antigun; antilife; electionpresident; giuliani; judyriuliani; justsayno2rudy; liberalgop; liberalnro; nochanceinhell; proabort; progay; rinohunt; rudy; rudyishillary; rudyloser; sureloser; taxandspend; weakonillegalaliens
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To: cpdiii
If he will change is stance on gun ownership I will campaign for him

No Republican is dumb enough to actively campaign for gun control.

Rudy is not going to come out as a gun-grabber. It's just common-sense.

51 posted on 12/08/2006 4:06:18 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Why can't Republicans stand up to Democrats like they do to terrorists?)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

People forget what Hillary and a Democrat Congress can do in eight years.

Say hello to universal health care, French veto over American security, the Kyoto Protocol, selling out Israel, more judicial activists on the courts fighting America-- and for what? To protest two of three issues Rudy will get right in the end anyway through judicial appointments?

After all, Giuliani has been fiercely loyal to the party, which is something I can't say about McCain, or a lot of people here at FR, including those who want to Ross Perot us again.


52 posted on 12/08/2006 4:15:20 PM PST by JHBowden (President Giuliani in 2008! Law and Order. Solid Judges. Free Markets. Killing Terrorists.)
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To: WorkingClassFilth
"Principled conservatives are willing to hand the nation over to the agressive left rather than follow turncoat pretenders at a slower rate into the maw of hell."

I think that you are right, except for the part where I don't know what a "maw" is in this context.

J/K, I got the Melville quote.

BTW, I never finished reading Moby Dick. Gotta remedy that.

53 posted on 12/08/2006 4:18:40 PM PST by Radix (Don't mind me, I post dumb stuff all of the time.)
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To: WestVirginiaRebel

You mean conservatives, don't you? What are Rudy's conservative values? They seem more than clear to many of us conservatives reading this article and thread and most are not Rudy haters, just strong conservatives. ACBR! (Any Conservative But Rudy!).


54 posted on 12/08/2006 4:20:52 PM PST by Paulus Invictus
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To: Bushwacker777
If I want a New York Democrat then why wouldn't I just go ahead and vote for Hillary?

Well said Bushwacker777.

Just say NO to any and ALL RINOs.

55 posted on 12/08/2006 4:24:05 PM PST by DocH (Gun-grabbers, you can HAVE my guns... lead first.)
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To: ken5050

Only to good solid conservatives.


56 posted on 12/08/2006 4:24:19 PM PST by Emmett McCarthy
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To: WestVirginiaRebel

You CAN'T be a "Rebel" if your from West Virginia.


57 posted on 12/08/2006 4:25:48 PM PST by DocH (Gun-grabbers, you can HAVE my guns... lead first.)
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To: JHBowden
You said, "After all, Giuliani has been fiercely loyal to the party,...

Does that include voting for George McGovern (ok, he was young, innocent, idealistic and incredibly naive in his late 20's...rolling eyes, yarite) and MARIO CUOMO?

He didn't just vote for CUOMO--he ENDORSED him!! Maybe you call that 'fiercely loyal' to the party--but I call it something much less.

58 posted on 12/08/2006 4:32:32 PM PST by stockstrader ("Where government advances--and it advances relentlessly--freedom is imperiled"-Janice Rogers Brown)
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To: JHBowden

"Giuliani has been fiercely loyal to the party".



Yeah, why not, he knows where the butter on his bread comes from, I don't even want to consider what Rudy would agree to, just to keep that butter coming!
Rudy has never been "fiercely loyal" to Republican principles, I don't expect he would recognize them,if they bit him on the arse!


59 posted on 12/08/2006 4:37:47 PM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (BUAIDH NO BAS)
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To: savedbygrace
The notion that someone is a "100 percenter" simply because he/she opposes a candidate who is an avowed liberal on 85% of the issues is so silly that it isn't even insulting.

When you see so-called "conservative" pushing a guy whose track record is about as liberal as you can get, you really have to wonder what the hidden agenda is here.

60 posted on 12/08/2006 4:38:12 PM PST by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: Uncledave
An anti-Giuliani website, SayNoToRudy.org, posted by social conservatives in Ohio, pulled the plug on itself after deciding that “Mr. Giuliani is truly a committed Republican and an accomplished conservative on many issues."

I really had to laugh at this one, since this silly SayNoToRudy.org charade was pretty thoroughly debunked right here on FreeRepublic.

61 posted on 12/08/2006 4:41:04 PM PST by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: NapkinUser

Go ahead attack rudy...but if hes the nominee, youre only insuring a HILLARY Victory !!!!!!!!!! Did you learn nothing in 2006?????????????


62 posted on 12/08/2006 4:52:12 PM PST by LC HOGHEAD (ROPE .... TREE .... JOURNALIST .....some assembly required.)
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To: JHBowden

didn't rudy endorse bill clinton in one of his campaigns?


63 posted on 12/08/2006 5:12:12 PM PST by drhogan
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To: WestVirginiaRebel

The haters must sit and watch for Rudy threads to go up because they are always at the top of the thread with the same mantra I am not voting for Rudy because! I just wonder how many of them have been lifelong Republicans and worked campaigns year after year because they don't sound like it. One hater outed himself today as being an independent conservative posting over and over why he doesn't support Rudy.

This is getting to be funny -- maybe we should reserve the first ten posts for them! :)


64 posted on 12/08/2006 5:25:20 PM PST by PhiKapMom ( Go Sooners! Big 12 Champions! Rudy 2008)
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To: Emmett McCarthy

You all don't have to read the threads or comment! Trust me you wouldn't be missed!


65 posted on 12/08/2006 5:27:40 PM PST by PhiKapMom ( Go Sooners! Big 12 Champions! Rudy 2008)
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To: Smokin' Joe

Have a solution -- don't read them!


66 posted on 12/08/2006 5:29:36 PM PST by PhiKapMom ( Go Sooners! Big 12 Champions! Rudy 2008)
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To: NapkinUser

You have been here a little over a year and you are the expert I see. Noticed that the vast majority of the hate Rudy crowd signed up in 2004 and later! Amazing how relative newbies know what is best for the Republican Party.

How many hours did you volunteer in 2004 or 2006 for Republican candidates?


67 posted on 12/08/2006 5:31:27 PM PST by PhiKapMom ( Go Sooners! Big 12 Champions! Rudy 2008)
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To: stockstrader

Tried to tell some folks that we have Freepers that don't care if Hillary wins if we nominate someone they don't like! Thanks for proving my point!


68 posted on 12/08/2006 5:33:44 PM PST by PhiKapMom ( Go Sooners! Big 12 Champions! Rudy 2008)
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To: PhiKapMom

What the heck does how long I've been a member of FreeRepublic matter in what I know "is best for the republican party."

There are plenty of members who oppose Giuliani who have been here a long time, some much longer than you.


69 posted on 12/08/2006 5:42:06 PM PST by NapkinUser (Tom Tancredo for president of the United States of America in 2008!)
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To: PhiKapMom

My pleasure!!


70 posted on 12/08/2006 5:42:10 PM PST by stockstrader ("Where government advances--and it advances relentlessly--freedom is imperiled"-Janice Rogers Brown)
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To: PhiKapMom

Oh, yeah - and you're speaking for whom?


71 posted on 12/08/2006 5:42:15 PM PST by Emmett McCarthy
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To: Uncledave
But in war one wants a war leader, who may be otherwise unacceptable.

When one wants a war leader one should look to somebody who knows about war rather than looking at one who turns a blind eye to the murder of full term babies right up unitl the moment the little toe leaves the birth canal.

I don't respect Giuliani, why would I ever follow him into the breach?

72 posted on 12/08/2006 5:43:06 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Names Ash Housewares

Rino is for people that threaten to stay home and not vote if they don't like a candidate! What some of you newbies to the Republican Party are finding out is that those of us who are strong fiscal conservatives are sick and tired of the whining and threatening to stay home that we keep hearing from some of you social conservatives. Most of us have been activists in the Republican Party for years and remember what it was like to be in a permanent minority in the House and to now have Pelosi because some of you stayed home and then you call us names, does go over well.

I am not staying quiet any more! Social issues belong at the state and local level and not at the federal level -- ditto education. My #1 priority is a strong defense -- foreign and domestic and how I base who I will support in an election. 'Kumbaya' and 'compassionate conservatism' are out of my playbook.

After living in OK with some of the social conservatives that made our rural fire fighters wait for funding while OK was burning so they could debate where to put books in the OKC library, I have had it. I am a conservative and resent the labels some of you are throwing at conservative Republicans because they don't share your views.

I am a pro-life conservative, but that is my personal belief and I don't need to ram it down everyone's throat like happened on the OU campus this fall by the pro-life group which also costs us votes in OK.


73 posted on 12/08/2006 5:44:41 PM PST by PhiKapMom ( Go Sooners! Big 12 Champions! Rudy 2008)
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To: PhiKapMom

I bet I speak for quite a few people that wouldn't miss anti-Rudy posts that keep appearing from the same group. Been through this before starting in 1999 although you all are much nicer then the attackers back then! :)


74 posted on 12/08/2006 5:48:22 PM PST by PhiKapMom ( Go Sooners! Big 12 Champions! Rudy 2008)
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To: PhiKapMom

Rudy will be the next President Of The United States.


75 posted on 12/08/2006 5:55:24 PM PST by TET1968 (SI MINOR PLUS EST ERGO NIHIL SUNT OMNIA)
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To: Uncledave

I am a Conservative and I Will NEVER vote for Rudy (though I respect his as "America's Mayor") for POTUS!!

There are many reasons why: One: Sup. Ct. Justices (he would never name a John Roberts or Alito, they would actually uphold the Constitution and overturn his sacred cows of Abortion, they would protect our 2nd Ammmendment Rights, and Stand against Constutionally supported sodomy!


76 posted on 12/08/2006 6:19:30 PM PST by JSDude1 (www.pence08.com)
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To: LC HOGHEAD

The bigger question is "Did moderates learn from the 2006 election: that they lost it for us..not conservatives."


77 posted on 12/08/2006 6:22:06 PM PST by JSDude1 (www.pence08.com)
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To: PhiKapMom

or maybe you can stop with the ad-hominim attacks when you know nothing about the Republican politics I have been involved in: I have been active this year supporting Republican candidates, but I will not vote for Rudy because our nation can't affort anymore Rockefeller Republicans as Prez (as much as I love the PRez, he's no "Ronald Reagan")..


78 posted on 12/08/2006 6:24:49 PM PST by JSDude1 (www.pence08.com)
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To: JSDude1
Sup. Ct. Justices (he would never name a John Roberts or Alito

Quite the contrary. He has stated that "Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Alito are models of what judges should be in this country," and that Scalia probably would have been his choice for Chief Justice.

79 posted on 12/08/2006 6:25:11 PM PST by ecurbh (Rudy in 2008)
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To: DocH
Technically you may be right...

But if I were a Christian Socialist Republican as opposed to an independent, classical conservative then I wouldn't be a Rebel, would I?

80 posted on 12/08/2006 6:28:33 PM PST by WestVirginiaRebel (Common sense will do to liberalism what the atomic bomb did to Nagasaki-Rush Limbaugh)
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To: ecurbh

Ok that's good to know, but it puts him at odds with me on a whole host of issues, ones that I can not vote for a Non-Reaganite on..Including Abortion, homosexuality, Guns, Etc... and he will have the power to sign and propose (at least figuratively) legislation!


81 posted on 12/08/2006 6:30:34 PM PST by JSDude1 (www.pence08.com)
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To: Uncledave
An Anti-Second Amendment Candidate In the last couple of election cycles, 2nd Amendment issues have moved to the back burner mainly because even Democratic candidates have learned that being tagged with the "gun grabber" label is political poison.
Unfortunately, Rudy Giuliani is a proponent of gun control who supported the Brady Bill and the Assault Weapon Ban.
Do Republicans really want to abandon their strong 2nd Amendment stance by selecting a pro-gun control nominee?

This is why I'm against him

82 posted on 12/08/2006 6:42:25 PM PST by righthand man (WE'RE SOUTHERN AND PROUD OF IT)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
I don't reckon you'd mind Hilary, either! I'll be damned if I can see much difference!

I bet our troops in the field see a difference. As do our enemies.

83 posted on 12/08/2006 7:27:32 PM PST by inkling
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To: PhiKapMom
Actually, any more, I don't. There is no news, just the same pep-rally hype, as if the sheer volume of posts would convince those of us who are determined to stick to our principles (and our guns) to suddenly have some sort of epiphany and join the Rudy camp...

What a silly MSM tactic.

The 'Rudy or Hillary' big-lie caucus.

If there is a significant segment of the population who would vote for "anyone BUT Hillary", why not play to that group with a conservative candidate and bring the winning crew back under the tent instead of alienate principled conservatives and lose?

No matter how liberal the Republican candidate, no one is going to win over the hardened, true-believer Hillary group, anyway, just alienate a large fraction of the base--our base.

So why not learn from the fact that with a couple of hard-won, targeted exceptions (i.e. Santorum), the Democrats took Congress' swing seats on the basis of seeming more conservative in the critical weeks running up to election day '06 when most voters start to pay attention.

Maybe we could have a 'Rudy' forum, sort of like 'chat', where all the cheerleaders could practice.

84 posted on 12/08/2006 9:00:08 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Cincinna
It seems to me that the people who are the most adamant against Giuliani are the ones who know him the least.

I am a conservative Republican who was born in New York City -- I now live about a half mile from where I was born -- and I can say without hesitation that Giuliani was the single best mayor of my lifetime. And I've lived through Wagner, Lindsay, Beam, Koch, Dinkins and now Bloomberg. Giuliani is not a flaming liberal. He may not consider himself a conservative, but anyone whose policies have Upper West Siders calling him a fascist gets my vote.

85 posted on 12/08/2006 9:10:05 PM PST by kellynch ("Our only freedom is the freedom to discipline ourselves." -- Bernard Baruch)
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To: PhiKapMom

I'll vote for McCain if I have to.
I voted for Arnold for crying out loud.
I just hope to God I don't have to.
The Republican party needs a simple reboot.
Clear out the noise and back to what people sent them there to do in the first place.

My first vote ever cast was for Reagan. I have voted Republican ever since. I am not thrilled with any of the names out there right now. I abhor democrats. Nothing will EVER convince me to vote for them. But we can do far better then McCain or Rudy.
Where are the conservative Governors?
Where are the modern Reaganites?
Has it been so long?


86 posted on 12/08/2006 10:40:33 PM PST by Names Ash Housewares
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To: kellynch

Your point is well taken. As a life long NYer I too have seen Rudy first hand and close up.

You can know a man by his enemies. Look who is against Rudy and screaming the loudest : Norman Siegel and the ACLU, terrorist lovers and Arafat supporters etc.

Before dismissing a strong candidate like Rudy, people should at least take a good look, and find out what he actually believes, and where he wants to take the country, instead of relying on the left wing MSM to define him.


87 posted on 12/08/2006 11:38:40 PM PST by Cincinna (HILLARY & HER HINO " We are going to take things away from you for the Common Good ")
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To: Cincinna

Absolutely! It's McCain who is the Dems' favorite Republican, not Rudy. The Dems HATE Rudy.


88 posted on 12/09/2006 2:34:23 AM PST by kellynch ("Our only freedom is the freedom to discipline ourselves." -- Bernard Baruch)
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To: inkling

Rudy Giuliani is almost precisely what I've been VOTING AGAINST for 40 years. If I have been manuevered into a situation where he is a viable choice, all that tells me is that freedom has as many enemies here, as it does abroad. I won't play the game, any more.


89 posted on 12/09/2006 3:30:49 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (BUAIDH NO BAS)
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To: Radix
In this case, I meant to describe the open mouth, or gullet, of Hell. Compared to Europe or any other socialist paradise, America hasn't gone to whole way...yet. Too many Pubbies more than willing to grease the slide, though.
90 posted on 12/09/2006 3:45:34 AM PST by WorkingClassFilth (Ever learning . . .)
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To: PhiKapMom; Names Ash Housewares
Rino is for people that threaten to stay home and not vote if they don't like a candidate!

You don't get to redefine the terms in this debate. RINO is for those that sport an "R" by their name, when their politics are RAT! Those pushing these RINO's didn't learn much in '06, so I suspect you'll need some more learning in '08. It's your call! Blackbird.

91 posted on 12/09/2006 4:12:14 AM PST by BlackbirdSST (Stay out of the Bushes, unless you're RINO hunting!)
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To: kellynch
It seems to me that the people who are the most adamant against Giuliani are the ones who know him the least. I am a conservative Republican who was born in New York City -- I now live about a half mile from where I was born -- and I can say without hesitation that Giuliani was the single best mayor of my lifetime. And I've lived through Wagner, Lindsay, Beam, Koch, Dinkins and now Bloomberg. Giuliani is not a flaming liberal. He may not consider himself a conservative, but anyone whose policies have Upper West Siders calling him a fascist gets my vote.

Very pragmatic, even conservative in your evaluation.

The great conservative scholar Kirk taught that "politics is the art of the possible".

And it is certainly true that conservatism runs through many aspects of a conservative's life, not just politics. Is "intractability" conservative? Perhaps not.

Conservative forces preserve a culture, and even preserve a nation, when they practice sensible politics by conserving their gains, not just making a "grand valiant gesture."

McCain is our next Nixon.

Some one show me one of our vetted guys that can blossum to a winner in the next 120 days.

Make me believe it! Make me believe that he wants it and has the skill to get it.

Until then, this fellow has my grudging support.

92 posted on 12/09/2006 4:22:49 AM PST by KC Burke (Men of intemperate minds can never be free...their passions forge their fetters.)
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To: Hildy
You're words are always so sweet, my love.

Perhaps we should offer national health care and free education and finance our minor cash flow problems through nationalization of key industries? That'd sure whip the daylights out of those wily liberals, huh? Let those dolts on the left continue to use tired old ideas like open religious expression, increased freedoms, tax reduction, 2nd amendment rights and smaller government to sway the ignorant - the fools! Meanwhile, we deeper thinking conservatives will rule the world by casting off those antiquated fables for a new playbook of modern and enlightened socialism!

Yeah, baby! Papa's got a brand new bag!
93 posted on 12/09/2006 4:24:33 AM PST by WorkingClassFilth (Ever learning . . .)
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To: Uncledave
Giuliani’s first marriage ended with an annulment that was risible even by the standards of the Catholic Church in modern America (he realized, after 14 years, that he and his wife were second cousins).

LOL! One would think that someone at the wedding would have caught that.

94 posted on 12/09/2006 5:00:19 AM PST by Trteamer ( (Eat Meat, Wear Fur, Own Guns, FReep Leftists, Drive an SUV, Drill A.N.W.R., Drill the Gulf, Vote)
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To: BlackbirdSST

LOL! FYI -- RINO stands for Republican in Name Only. A lot of folks on here have been called RINO's including myself. I have been a hard working member of THE Republican Party a long time before the people calling names even thought of being Republican.

Those that only use a keyboard to call other Republicans names to push their agenda, don't have a clue!

Spend more time out working in races and a lot of you might change your mind at just who are the RINO's. Trust me it isn't the people do the work for THE Republican Party. NOTE it is not the Republican Conservative Party, it is THE Republican Party.



95 posted on 12/09/2006 10:34:51 AM PST by PhiKapMom ( Go Sooners! Big 12 Champions! Rudy 2008)
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To: Uncledave

Another liberal Republican from NYCity falling down silly in support of Rudy for Prez. Why am I not surprised.


96 posted on 12/09/2006 2:53:08 PM PST by Reagan Man (Conservatives don't support amnesty and conservatives don't vote for liberals!)
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To: BlackbirdSST
>>>>Rino is for people that threaten to stay home and not vote if they don't like a candidate!

>>>>You don't get to redefine the terms in this debate. RINO is for those that sport an "R" by their name, when their politics are RAT! Those pushing these RINO's didn't learn much in '06, so I suspect you'll need some more learning in '08.

Correctamundo! The bullhorn antics of some RudyRinos is far out of step with the conservative agenda and sounds more like a promotion of liberalism.

Rudy offers conservatives nothing.

97 posted on 12/09/2006 3:02:36 PM PST by Reagan Man (Conservatives don't support amnesty and conservatives don't vote for liberals!)
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To: WestVirginiaRebel

They sure are!


98 posted on 12/09/2006 3:11:16 PM PST by JimFreedom (My patience is growing thin)
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To: mariabush
"As I have stated on many other threads about the election of Rudy, I will never vote for him for anything, period!"

Ditto.

99 posted on 12/09/2006 3:12:56 PM PST by Godebert
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To: savedbygrace

They are 100 percenters by the replies they make, and no 100 percenters are not persuadable.


100 posted on 12/09/2006 3:16:05 PM PST by JimFreedom (My patience is growing thin)
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