Illegal immigrants and their open-air church evicted from wealthy San Diego-area canyons (boo-hoo)

North County Times ^ | December 23, 2006 | ELLIOT SPAGAT

[radar101]

John and Ken had Vicente Fox's first campaign manager on one day.
Among other things he said was that a close friend of Fox has a monopoly on communications.
On money wired to Mexico, the "Friend of Fox" takes FORTY PER CENT.
SO- the family gets $600.

[radar101]

This is what it looks like at home for these "Migrants". If left alone, your neighborhood will look the same in about 5 years

[Don Corleone]

Third World America....Believe it...it is happening HERE!

[upchuck]

Good research on your part.

And your point is?

[Don Corleone]

Barry Martin, 54, a retired airline pilot.

Hmmm..suspicious since airline pilots must retire at age 60...unless he has come into a great deal of money somehow I'd suspect that he is either fired or furloughed.

[MinuteGal]

"The Church is not in the business of judging these people. The Church is in the business of saving souls."

What claptrap and liberalspeak.

If the Catholic Church (or any other Christian denomination) is not in the business of judging, why are the Ten Commandments used as a judging criteria?

If nobody is ever judged, why do we need religions at all? And why would we have to "save souls" if the good and evil in all souls are never judged?

I could write a 5-page essay on the above oxymoronic statement. But it's a belief typical of New Age clerics who judge not, lest they be judged.

Clerics in search of causes should remember the Bible says render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's........like obeying laws.

[arthurus]

In ministering to the illegals at that location the Church is making no such demands. The Church is doing its Business. The Church is not pecularly American nor is it Republican nor Democrat. The Church is there to save souls. Do you argue that the wetbacks forfeit their souls at the border?

[EnochPowellWasRight]

"In ministering to the illegals at that location the Church is making no such demands. "

In politicking for amnesty for "migrants", it is. Things like "Migration Week" are examples of this.

"Do you argue that the wetbacks forfeit their souls at the border?"

Do you support Cardinals demanding we change our laws in actual violation of the Catechism? Do you think crime should be abetted and encouraged, or should the criminal be encouraged to REFORM themselves?

[arthurus]

The good and evil in men's souls is judged by the Lord. The Church judges that these people continue to be vessels of souls. Perhaps your judgment that they left their souls at the Rio Grande is better but I would not bet my own soul on it. People judge attitudes and actions and the Church seeks penance and conversion. The Church does not disdain souls because the bodies that house them have committed crimes. It is up to secular law enforcement to enforce laws. It is for the Church to save souls.Would your church, if you have one, refuse to allow these people in to worship? If so, than your church is all about social relations and only incidentally about saving souls.

[WatchingInAmazement]

Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE

I like your tag line. That goes for illegal alien invaders as well.

[arthurus]

You are conflating two different issues. If you have determined that the Church must be expelled from the country because of its stand then you should say as much. The position on illegal immigration has nothing to do with the Church's mission to the canyon. I disagree heartily with the hierarchy's notion that charity requires that we welcome the barbarians but I do not deign to instruct the Church which souls are worthy of saving. Charity is not a national responsibility. It is personal. The state has no business granting charity to others because they use resources that belong to others. The state has a duty to secure the borders and to remove the barbarians. The Church's responsibility is to save souls and that is what that mission is engaged in doing. The wetbacks should be rounded up by the authorities and deported. And the Church should not cease ministering to their souls all the while.

[JustaDumbBlonde]

They can't afford pencils for children, but they can pay a smuggler two grand to get them across the border. I stopped reading right there.

[arthurus]

Illegals should be all be rounded up and removed. That is not practical and would be incredibley expensive what with all the ACLU requirements that would pertain these days. More practical is, while rounding up some illegals, to fine and jail some who employ them, knowingly or not, in a regular and continuing process . The opportunities for which backs are wet would very quickly dry up and they would self deport. Then, if fairness is the main issue trumping national survival, the employers can all be released and their fines returned after the border is fenced and secure and the border jumpers have jumped back south. In the meantime it is the business of the Church to minister to souls wherever it finds them.

[arthurus]

Illegals should be all be rounded up and removed. That is not practical and would be incredibley expensive what with all the ACLU requirements that would pertain these days. More practical is, while rounding up some illegals, to fine and jail some who employ them, knowingly or not, in a regular and continuing process . The opportunities for which backs are wet would very quickly dry up and they would self deport. Then, if fairness is the main issue trumping national survival, the employers can all be released and their fines returned after the border is fenced and secure and the border jumpers have jumped back south. In the meantime it is the business of the Church to minister to souls wherever it finds them.

[hinckley buzzard]

the Church, in seeking out its children is not part of the problem. It is not in the political business.

*arf arf*--snort--(chuckle) wheeze,eyes watering. .

[arthurus]

If, as you seem to surmise, the Church is primarily a political party, then the country probably should ban churches altogether.

[EnochPowellWasRight]

"You are conflating two different issues."

I am not.

"If you have determined that the Church must be expelled from the country because of its stand then you should say as much."

Where did you get this? All I ask is that a tax-free institution known as the Roman Catholic Church stop interfering in matters temporal and secular when that involves aiding those committing crimes. Encouraging the commission of a sin (violation of a just law) isn't the Church's mission.

"The Church's responsibility is to save souls and that is what that mission is engaged in doing. "

Ah, but when they begin politicking (and YES THEY ARE DOING THIS) for lawbreakers, that steps over a line.

"And the Church should not cease ministering to their souls all the while."

ALL I ASK IS THAT MAHONEY AND HIS ILK STOP DEMANDING OUR LAWS BE CHANGED OR IGNORED! BTW, "ministering to their souls" should include encouragement to get right with the law too.

Is that clear enough?

[EnochPowellWasRight]

"If, as you seem to surmise, the Church is primarily a political party, then the country probably should ban churches altogether."

Hyperbole. We don't ban other political parties, but if the RCC in the United States is going to operate as one and not a Church, that should be recognized.

Start with Leftists like Mahoney.

[MinuteGal]

"The good and evil in men's souls is judged by the Lord."

Well, then, let's stop all earthly judgment and we can all do what we want until the Day of Reckoning when the Lord will judge us all.

"The Church does not disdain souls because the bodies that house them have committed crimes."

I never inferred that. But it's also up to the Church to advise lawbreakers that while their souls are never disdained their bodies better shape up and obey the laws of the land because their souls will be all the better for it.

"Would your church, if you have one, refuse to allow these people in to worship? If so, then your church is all about social relations and only incidentally about saving souls."

Yes, I do have a church, Missouri Synod Lutheran. If my pastor packed the congregation every Sunday with illegals, displacers of American workers and poachers who along with their greedy employers are in violation of federal, state and local laws, I'd wish them all well, and attend somewhere else.

It's virtually useless to debate with you as you are a spinmeister and I don't have the time today to unspin as I would wish. Also, it's just too easy.

Leni

[BlessedBeGod]

"We're wandering pilgrims once again," Monsignor Frank Fawcett told about 75 people at a Mass earlier this month.

Tough, Father. You're encouraging people to sin. You should be counseling them to go back home and come back here legally, like all other immigrants have to do.