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$34.06 an Hour -- That's how much the average public school teachers makes. Is that "underpaid"?
The Wall Street Journal ^ | February 2, 2007 | Jay P. Greene and Marcus A. Winters

Posted on 02/02/2007 5:20:28 AM PST by Zakeet

Who, on average, is better paid--public school teachers or architects? How about teachers or economists? You might be surprised to learn that public school teachers are better paid than these and many other professionals. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, public school teachers earned $34.06 per hour in 2005, 36% more than the hourly wage of the average white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty or technical worker.

In the popular imagination, however, public school teachers are underpaid. "Salaries are too low. We all know that," noted First Lady Laura Bush, expressing the consensus view. "We need to figure out a way to pay teachers more." Indeed, our efforts to hire more teachers and raise their salaries account for the bulk of public school spending increases over the last four decades. During that time per-pupil spending, adjusted for inflation, has more than doubled; overall we now annually spend more than $500 billion on public education.

The perception that we underpay teachers is likely to play a significant role in the debate to reauthorize No Child Left Behind. The new Democratic majority intends to push for greater education funding, much of which would likely to go toward increasing teacher compensation. It would be beneficial if the debate focused on the actual salaries teachers are already paid.

It would also be beneficial if the debate touched on the correlation between teacher pay and actual results. To wit, higher teacher pay seems to have no effect on raising student achievement. Metropolitan areas with higher teacher pay do not graduate a higher percentage of their students than areas with lower teacher pay.

In fact, the urban areas with the highest teacher pay are famous for their abysmal outcomes.

(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: edbasher; education; nea; teachers
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To: A Strict Constructionist

"SO CHANGE JOBS."

I'm not the one who came here whining because my wife gets paid more and works less than most people.

Perhaps you could suggest to the other poster that, if his wife is unappy as a teacher, perhaps she could take her oh-so-valuable degree to the real world where she can expect to be treated far more harshly.

And I am changing jobs, jerk-wad. Not by choice but because I was laid off recently, effective March 31. Teacher-babe doesn't have to worry about that very much either.


101 posted on 02/02/2007 7:20:37 AM PST by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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To: Zakeet
Hmn.

They are counting ONLY classroom hours, my wife (AP Chemistry, 4 classes of Physics, Beta club sponsor, science Olympiad coordinator, district science committee - all unpaid hours, plus lunchroom "monitor" + hall monitor + football and basketball ticket taker - also unpaid) spends some extra 3-4 hours a day grading and writing assignments.
102 posted on 02/02/2007 7:21:03 AM PST by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: twigs

All salaries are relative to perceived worth. Teachers are not valued while pro-athletes are. This is because most people don't want to do the job, because they remember teachers as someone who made them follow the rules and do homework, bad memory. Most guys would like to be a pro-, adoring fans, big bucks and women.
I'm always amazed at how many people of IQ's at the genius level we have. They all learned to read, do math and program computers on their own. No teacher needed or wanted. Believe it or not this lack of respect for teachers carries over into Med. School and Grad. School, just get me out so I can make money. I already know it all.


103 posted on 02/02/2007 7:22:04 AM PST by A Strict Constructionist (Machiavelli can be useful at times)
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To: CT-Freeper

Not to pooh-pooh your example, but your wife gets two months off in the summer, minus the week she has to attend the class. Leaving aside that your school district seems to go extraordinarily far into the summer (most places end around memorial day), I think you forgot to count the two to three weeks off at Christmas, the week off at Thanksgiving, Spring Break, October break (which most schools get), Columbus Day, MLK Day, etc.

That adds up to three months--at the least.

And so in the summer you wife can spend all day at the golf course, on the tennis court, or at the beach?

Yeah, that's rough.


104 posted on 02/02/2007 7:22:19 AM PST by Publius Valerius
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To: shoedog

Incidentally, my wife is a chemist with a Masters degree. She doesn't make $34 an hour.


105 posted on 02/02/2007 7:24:01 AM PST by Publius Valerius
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To: Teacher317

The real problem isn't teacher salaries... it's the fact that the wage scale is based on time, instead of merit.
The real problem isn't that teachers aren't doing a good job... it's that bad teachers are virtually impossible to remove from the classroom.
The real problem isn't that teachers don't teach the basics... it's that they're required to teach towards standardized tests.
The real problem isn't that teachers are underperforming professionals... it's that they're the lowest-paid professionals with the lowest authority to direct their own efforts (which also does nothing to draw higher-qualified folk who are making far more in the "real world").




Add to that:

The real problem is that teachers are hamstrung by their superiors, the board, and the NEA to teach watered down PC dreck, and real learning is discouraged or flat out disallowed. The average teacher loses more and more control over their own curriculum every year, and more and more of it is being dictated by liberal idealism and politcal correctness. Any attempt to fight that can lead to losing their jobs.


106 posted on 02/02/2007 7:25:01 AM PST by ByDesign
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To: shoedog
You need to understand that these threads exist so the teacher haters can have a contest to see who hates teachers the most. This is the second thread about the same study. If they really thought teachers had such a cakewalk, they themselves would enter the profession.

My parents have both taught for 30+ years, and I'll put the amount of work they do up against any of the surfing the net on the job teacher haters
107 posted on 02/02/2007 7:26:55 AM PST by mysterio
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To: Publius Valerius

I actually agree with you that secondary public school teachers (where I live) make more than they should when other similarly educated professionals make less--and pay their salaries as tax payers. That's not true everywhere, though. But I get really angry on these threads because of all the assumptions that teachers are stupid and do little work. It's just not true. That might apply to a few, but not most.


108 posted on 02/02/2007 7:27:39 AM PST by twigs
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To: L98Fiero

Sorry about the loss of your job. She loves teaching and I couldn't make her stop if I tried and yes teachers do get laid off if there are not enough students to make a class. People should remember that not all school districts are unionized and like Detroit and NYC.


109 posted on 02/02/2007 7:29:34 AM PST by A Strict Constructionist (Machiavelli can be useful at times)
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To: Publius Valerius
I think in the North East in general, schools don't finish until mid-June, and begin the week before Labor Day or the day after Labor Day.

One week at Christmas.

Two Days at Thanksgiving.

One or two days for Easter.

Usually a week in late February.

And yes, the regular Federal Holidays. MLK, President's Day, Memorial Day, Labor Day, Columbus Day, and, in some districts, Election Day.

110 posted on 02/02/2007 7:30:56 AM PST by CT-Freeper (Said the perpetually dejected Mets (and, yes, sometimes Jets) fan.)
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To: LWalk18

Most public school teachers? Where do you get that? In the states I've lived in, a four year education degree gets you in the door--granted those with post-graduate degrees are paid more, but not significantly more. In my experience, I haven't seen post-grad degrees being a requirement.

And I'm not suggesting anything about what starting teachers make. I can only go by the information presented here.


111 posted on 02/02/2007 7:33:49 AM PST by Publius Valerius
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To: ByDesign

This topic is one of my hot buttons. You are 1K% correct.

ITS THE POLITICIANS STUPID. Most people can't and won't see that. G. Bush and T. Kennedy foisted off the No Child left behind act on education and sent it further down the tube.


112 posted on 02/02/2007 7:34:09 AM PST by A Strict Constructionist (Machiavelli can be useful at times)
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To: A Strict Constructionist

"People should remember that not all school districts are unionized and like Detroit and NYC."

That is a good point. I apologize for getting testy.

Given my situation, when I see somebody complaining about being paid good money in a job with a pretty much guaranteed position, it just digs me.

Again, sorry for being out of line.


113 posted on 02/02/2007 7:34:34 AM PST by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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To: A Strict Constructionist

If you don't understand my point, just say so. But to make silly excuses for incompetence of curricula and personnel is not helpful.

If the points you make were relevant, we'd have had these educational problems since before the founding of this nation.They are much more recent than that.


114 posted on 02/02/2007 7:35:39 AM PST by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: Publius Valerius
Incidentally, my wife is a chemist with a Masters degree. She doesn't make $34 an hour.

My wife is a chemist as well, with two Master's. One in Chemistry, and one in Chemical Education. She's starting a Doctorate in a few years to be able to teach Chem Education at the University level.

With her two Masters, she was offered a job at one of the local Chem/Pharm companies (Boehringer Ingelheim), where she'd be making more than twice what she's making now. However, teaching is important to her. She knew the benefits and pitfalls, and chose the teaching career.

115 posted on 02/02/2007 7:35:41 AM PST by CT-Freeper (Said the perpetually dejected Mets (and, yes, sometimes Jets) fan.)
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To: L98Fiero

No offense to you or your friend, but just as you want to slam what teachers make, what in the heck did your friend with a Masters in Psychology plan on doing with it? My point on college education is what many feel is a fair salary. People with degrees in engineering, Business management etc... expect and in most cases earn much more and everybody things they should earn it.

My wife chooses to teach because she loves it. She doesn't have to teach. My point is, everyone thinks teaching is a piece of cake. You want to talk about walking in shoes. I can almost gaurantee you that within a few months you would quit teaching because of the BS you have to put up with from parents, state and national requirements, stupid union influences etc..


116 posted on 02/02/2007 7:35:49 AM PST by shoedog
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To: twigs

No, I don't think they are stupid or anything of the sort. I just think that overall, they've got a pretty sweet deal.

I know that if I could do what I do and take three months off in the summer time in exchange for a 25% pay cut, I'd jump at it.


117 posted on 02/02/2007 7:35:51 AM PST by Publius Valerius
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To: Zakeet

I've never understood the whining of teachers.

They get the summers off like CHILDREN.

They get every holiday off when they do work like CHILDREN.

They can get a summer job, like CHILDREN.

They whine like....well...forget it


118 posted on 02/02/2007 7:38:35 AM PST by word_warrior_bob (You can now see my amazing doggie and new puppy on my homepage!! Come say hello to Jake & Sonny)
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To: ByDesign

I agree to the entire summary of your statements. My wife, as a teacher, agrees. She hatest the NEA. She also gets frustrated with those teachers who really do not care and were the ones who basically got in because nothing else worked out.

If we got unions out of the picture. If there could be a merit based tenure system. If parents supported the teachers, things would be much better.


119 posted on 02/02/2007 7:39:27 AM PST by shoedog
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To: L98Fiero
Hey a little venom when things are going bad is to be expected. No Harm No foul. I've been po'd since Katrina when the great majority of our Med. School Faculty was furlowed and rest of us took pay hits which haven't all come back as of yet.
120 posted on 02/02/2007 7:43:22 AM PST by A Strict Constructionist
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