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To: Zakeet

WOA NELLY....... Let's consider the flawed logic here:

Teachers work (and are paid for) 9 months out of the year, not 12 (like most other jobs we are comparing it with.

So the teacher might teach 1,400 hrs in the year (40 hrs week times 36 weeks), while a worker in another job works 2,000 hrs in a year(40 hrs week times 52 weeks).

Let's say a teacher makes $47,000 a year, and you divide by the 1,400 hrs.... you come up with $33.57/hour.

But the other worker, working for $33.57/hour would be making over $67,000 in a year.

So saying that because the math shows a teacher makes $34.06 is deceivingly high. And I don't want to hear the argument that "well, a teacher can go get another job to fill the left over 3 months!" Sure, but will that extra job earn anywhere near $34/hr, NO! Teachers often have to spend a portion of the summer taking the courses they need to keep their certification and they have to foot the bill for those couses sometimes.

Then there is the other little matter of teaching jobs not having anywhere near the perks of the white-collar jobs the article wants to compare with. Teacher's health insurance is not as good, there are no 401Ks and stock options awarded, etc. And let me tell you... teachers do not get coffee break time, stand around the watercooler time, and lunch break time. They work from the moment they enter that door in the morning til time to leave... and often are expected to attend evening PTA meetings, sports events, club meetings, etc and these extra hours are not counted and not figured into that equation when they come up with the $34.06/hour.So many times they are working many more hours than they are getting paid for.... example, my son who teaches high school in Savannah area.... he is expected to cover the following duties over and above his school day: coach track in the spring and run the track meets, be at and do the scorekeeping for every football game, and every basketball game (and they had regular and JV teams for both boys and girls - 2 games each/wk, that's 8 games a week!) and they wanted him to take his turn driving the activity bus for spoting events as well. These NUMEROUS extra hours do not equate in extra pay at $34.06/hour.


31 posted on 02/02/2007 5:59:31 AM PST by Apple Pan Dowdy (... as American as Apple Pie)
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy

You are too easily brushing off the fact that summers offer teachers an incredible amount of freedom. And I don't know where you are getting that benefits information, b/c if your son is a public school teacher, he likely has some of the best benefits available for a working professional.


42 posted on 02/02/2007 6:08:32 AM PST by Flightdeck
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy

"he is expected to cover the following duties over and above his school day: coach track in the spring and run the track meets, be at and do the scorekeeping for every football game, and every basketball game (and they had regular and JV teams for both boys and girls - 2 games each/wk, that's 8 games a week!) and they wanted him to take his turn driving the activity bus for spoting events as well. These NUMEROUS extra hours do not equate in extra pay at $34.06/hour."

No, but it the district opererates like most districts he will get paid extra from some of these duties.
I am assuming that he was paid for coaching track and driving the bus?
Probably the scorekeeping was volunteer?


45 posted on 02/02/2007 6:15:55 AM PST by Scotswife
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy
Teacher's health insurance is not as good

You can't be serious! Teachers (I know, I was one) generally have the finest medical and dental care in the nation. No deductibles, no co-pays, no HMO's, no hassles, any doctor, any time. Its worth tens of thousands of dollars a year and as far as I can tell wasn't even factored in to the article's computations. The don't call it Cadillac health for nothing.
52 posted on 02/02/2007 6:22:32 AM PST by MelonFarmerJ (Proudly voting Republican/conservative in every election since 1964)
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy
Being a teacher is a GREAT job for a working parent. When school is out because of Martin Luther King weekend for 4 days my wife and I both had to work. Same thing over Christmas break(7 days off), Presidents week in Feb.(5 days), Spring/Easter break in April (another 5 days), plus the occasional teachers workshop, and snow day in NH. On all of these days we have to figure out what to do with our 8 year old son.
As far as benefits, GIVE ME A BREAK ! All of the people who work with me that have spouses that are teachers are on their spouses health insurance. Plus their spouses have pensions and 401K plans that have much higher employer match than our company.
I agree most teachers work very hard for the days that they actually do work. However, the problem is that they are not paid based on how well they do their job and the bad teachers,which I agree are few can not be terminated.
73 posted on 02/02/2007 6:43:27 AM PST by woodbutcher1963 (Lumber Broker)
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy

There are some good points to what you say.

However, in MY name-droping 2nd-hand experience, my mother was a teacher all her life except for a few years trying to make it in real estate. She taught all levels in her career, but the dominant theme was emotionally disturbed - and she became "teacher-in-charge" at the special (albeit small) attached school for ED teenagers for 15 years.

The worst part (as far as "hours") for my mom was the extra time at night actually taken for checking papers, etc. Otherwise, it was basically strictly her specified duties DURING school hours. This was certainly true of all the other "plain" teachers. I also knew her underling teachers pretty well as well as my own HS teachers, because my mom's ED school was attached to my HS administratively.

And let's not forget not every teacher is in HS. There are ES and MS that hardly do anything truly extracurricular.

And MANY did NOT "work all Summer". My mom didn't, and neither did any teacher she worked with.

At the rate schools are performing, I wouldn't say teachers are underpaid. My mother was a great teacher (she even has a boy from her last ED MS who visits her still 5 years after she retired), but far too many aren't. Of course, it's not all teachers' faults, but they're part of the cycle.

When that changes, maybe we'll talk about higher pay. My mother, incidentally, would agree.


79 posted on 02/02/2007 6:50:27 AM PST by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy
“Sure, but will that extra job earn anywhere near $34/hr, NO!... Then there is the other little matter of teaching jobs not having anywhere near the perks of the white-collar jobs the article wants to compare with… teachers do not get coffee break time… often are expected to attend evening PTA meetings, sports events, club meetings, etc and these extra hours”

What color is the sky in your world?

Many teachers in technical fields earn MUCH more during summer breaks. But you’re right that the majority of teachers with soft degrees are not qualified to earn their salaries in the private sector.

All those job complaints you listed exist in blue and white collar private industry to varying degrees– poor benefits, need to keep up with technology on your own time, no break time at work, after hour expectations, etc.. Sometimes they’re better, sometimes worse, but nowhere outside of teaching is a salary spread out over 2-3 contiguous months where the worker is not working. There’s no way around that. If Teacher’s salaries are calculated hourly and compared to other professions, they need to be adjusted to account for summer breaks.

97 posted on 02/02/2007 7:16:50 AM PST by elfman2 (An army of amateurs doing the media's job.)
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy

I work at LEAST 1700 hours outside of the classrooom in addition to those 1400 hours in the classroom. Let's see divided by 40 hours a week, how many extra weeks am I working? :)

Note--it depends on the teacher. Not evetyone works as many as I do. I know of few who work ONLY those 1400 hours though. :)


162 posted on 02/02/2007 12:38:01 PM PST by moog
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy

"These NUMEROUS extra hours do not equate in extra pay at $34.06/hour"

That's the most accurate statement yet. :) You often see these periodic "studies." In some places, I would indeed say teachers are overpaid, but not in my own plce.


175 posted on 02/02/2007 1:02:14 PM PST by moog
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