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To: Bokababe
The Founders were not attempting to steal land from a recognized neighboring nation.

They don't call it the Indian Treaty Room of the White House for nothing, FRiend.

This is more akin to Mexicans in Texas, Arizona or California deciding to create an independant nation out of a piece of those States.

You do know how Texas came to be right? American immigrants to Mexico decided they wanted their independence from the Mexican government. They fought for it and earned it. They didn't didn't trifle about 'international law' and 'boundaries', they appealed to the spirit of the Declaration of Independence and encouraged Americans to come and help them in their fight for self government. CA and AZ were carved from Mexico by the U.S. by force, and threat of force. You need to check out the history before trying to use it to buttress your argument.

Would you give it to them? If so, then I suggest you give them your house first!

I prefer political self-determination for all people, how about you?

PS The Founding Fathers didn't deal in sex slaves, drugs, and illegal arms. so don't insult them by comparing them to the Muslim Albanian Mafia stealing Kosovo!

The Founders were happy smugglers, breaking the Crowns diktats on trade at every turn. John Hancock, the guy with the signature on the DoI so big that the King could read it without his glasses, was a smuggler. The Constitution the Founders wrote and adopted protected the slave trade in the U.S. explicitly. The U.S. was also quite happy to trade in tobacco and rum, the drugs of the age. Insofar as the question of 'illegal arms', it was the men on Lexington Green who opposed the King's efforts to confiscate their arms that inspired Patrick Henry's "Liberty or Death" speech and sparked the Revolution.

I don't assert that all, or even most, elements of society in Kosovo are upstanding in your eyes or mine, but I do assert their political self-determination is a human right, and it's their right, not ours or the UN's, to tell them how and by whom they will be governed.

8 posted on 02/23/2007 12:00:17 AM PST by Gunslingr3
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To: Gunslingr3; Bokababe
You do know how Texas came to be right? American immigrants to Mexico decided they wanted their independence from the Mexican government. They fought for it and earned it.

To make Texas analagous to Kosovo you would have to turn things on their head! You'd have a scenario where Mexico pretty much defeated the secessionists. That The United States and the European powers stepped in and bombarded Mexican ports and coastal towns killing civilians and military alike.

The "fighting" is stopped when Russia brokers a deal between Mexico and the US and it's allies where Mexico agrees to withdraw it's military from Texas with the proviso that it is still Mexican territory!


They Albanians resorted to terrorism for Kosovo and lost... They did not earn it, but people like you are trying to give it to them.
9 posted on 02/23/2007 6:12:08 AM PST by F-117A (Mr. Ahtisaari, give Sápmi it's independence! Free the Sami!!!)
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To: Gunslingr3
"American immigrants to Mexico decided they wanted their independence from the Mexican government. They fought for it and earned it."

But in this case it was an international airforce which "won" Kosovo for the Albanians. The Albanians without incredible international help from several of the strongest nations of the world wouldn't have Kosovo - nor either, probably Albania. It was Austria which created Albania as a way to block Serbia from the sea.

So if the international community earned Kosovo and funds and supports it to the hilt, then the Albanians didn't earn it - they were/are simply tools.

10 posted on 02/23/2007 7:03:50 AM PST by joan
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To: Gunslingr3
You do know how Texas came to be right?

I do, but apparently you don't have a clue.

When Santa Anna became a dictator, he abolished the Mexican Constitution of 1824. ALL provinces of Mexico were in revolt. Austin and Houston were adamant that they were fighting for a restoration of the 1824 constitution.

"1824" was even on the Texican flag. It only became an independence movement when Santa Anna refused to restore the 1824 constitution.

Don't you DARE compare Austin and Houston to the Albanian mafia, and their narco-terrorist state.
11 posted on 02/23/2007 7:06:38 AM PST by horse_doc
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To: Gunslingr3

Defence & Foreign Affairs describes the players & scenario impeccably http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1789894/posts


14 posted on 02/23/2007 8:52:17 AM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Gunslingr3

Remember your words when the illegal immigrants declare self-determination for themselves in Aztlan, you will come to regret them.


19 posted on 02/23/2007 4:20:50 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Gunslingr3
You do know how Texas came to be right? American immigrants to Mexico decided they wanted their independence from the Mexican government.

Texas was a virtually uninhabited Mexican province when the Americans showed up. Prior to the 1820's its ONLY organized settlements were a cluster of pirate hangouts on the gulf coast and a couple tiny ex-mission towns inhabited by old Spanish landowner families. The majority of those Spaniards sided with the Americans during revolution.

The Hispanic residents of Texas today (as well as those in California and New Mexico and Arizona) are mostly immigrants from places like Yucatan and Chiapas or even Central and South America. They have no more of "indigenous" claim on Texas than the Eskimos do.

The actual indigenous people of the American southwest are the Indian tribes such as the Comanches, Apaches, Pueblos, Coushattas etc. all have reservations in these states today or are mixed among the Anglo inhabitants. Virtually none of them speak Spanish and none any direct relationship to the Mexican illegals that are flooding into the region today.

22 posted on 02/24/2007 10:46:34 PM PST by lqclamar ("That's it, Seth, you can't blame them. It's want of education. That's all it is.")
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