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To: CedarDave
AGW = anthropogenic global warming - ie man made GW.

I don't think M&M have taken a position on AGW, what they are doing is trying to apply a normal degree of scientific rigour to the GW "science". Full and fair disclosure, for example - it's a principle of science that results must be replicatable, but the GW side seem to be a bit lax about publishing their methods and data.

Both sites are not typical blogs, there are well qualified scientists who post on both, plus the usual "hangers on". A deep reading over several days of climateaudit will be very rewarding for bolstering scepticism.

I have spent the last couple of weeks reading them, and my impression is that realclimate is they are rather defensive and dismissive of anyone who doesn't share their opinions.

I'd also heartily recommend the Wegman paper which deals with networks of pro-GW scientists - http://www.climateaudit.org/pdf/others/07142006_Wegman_Report.pdf - by reading it you will come to understand how incestuous the AGW crowd are!

Here are some of the findings

Findings

In general, we found MBH98 and MBH99 to be somewhat obscure and incomplete and the criticisms of MM03/05a/05b to be valid and compelling. We also comment that they were attempting to draw attention to the discrepancies in MBH98 and MBH99, and not to do paleoclimatic temperature reconstruction. Normally, one would try to select a calibration dataset that is representative of the entire dataset. The 1902-1995 data is not fully appropriate for calibration and leads to a misuse in principal component analysis. However, the reasons for setting 1902-1995 as the calibration point presented in the narrative of MBH98 sounds reasonable, and the error may be easily overlooked by someone not trained in statistical methodology. We note that there is no evidence that Dr. Mann or any of the other authors in paleoclimatology studies have had significant interactions with mainstream statisticians.

In our further exploration of the social network of authorships in temperature reconstruction, we found that at least 43 authors have direct ties to Dr. Mann by virtue of coauthored papers with him. Our findings from this analysis suggest that authors in the area of paleoclimate studies are closely connected and thus ‘independent studies’ may not be as independent as they might appear on the surface. This committee does not believe that web logs are an appropriate forum for the scientific debate on this issue. It is important to note the isolation of the paleoclimate community; even though they rely heavily on statistical methods they do not seem to be interacting with the statistical community. Additionally, we judge that the sharing of research materials, data and results was haphazardly and grudgingly done. In this case we judge that there was too much reliance on peer review, which was not necessarily independent. Moreover, the work has been sufficiently politicized that this community can hardly reassess their public positions without losing credibility. Overall, our committee believes that Mann’s assessments that the decade of the 1990s was the hottest decade of the millennium and that 1998 was the hottest year of the millennium cannot be supported by his analysis.

50 posted on 03/15/2007 11:30:39 AM PDT by alnitak ("That kid's about as sharp as a pound of wet liver" - Foghorn Leghorn)
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To: alnitak
I highly recommend both blogs.

ClimateAudit.org to get a good idea about one aspect of the "resistance". It reveals numerous questionable tactics in gathering (and preserving, or even better NOT preserving) data upon which all of IPCC's conclusions are based. You will witness attempts through Freedom of Information Act to get the data, and how the IPCC folks reject the requests.

RealClimate.org is worth visiting regularly if for no other reason than to witness how smug and arrogant the AGW theorists are. My sense, compared to reading various other blogs, is that most posters are NOT scientists but rather eager kool-aid drinkers with Gavin Schmitt, et. al. more than willing to do the pouring. I have to say that I experienced a great feeling of Schadenfreud witnessing them licking their wounds after last nights debate and whining about how unfair the forum was to them and how they were the only people representing science and that is was necessarilly less glamorous.

I regularly visit several other blogs (mostly skeptics in nature):

Roger Pielske Sr's Climate Science Blog
Bruce Hall's Hall Of Record
A Better World: Graeme Bird for High Office

All of these blogs are great, and often they will cross-post. These are REAL climate scientists, some of which are the most prominent "resistance" scientists in their fields. I particularly like Roger Pielske Sr.'s blog for balance. Gavin Schmitt frequently drops in, makes criticisms, gets spanked, then departs. I have rarely seen Mr. Pielske NOT come out on top in dust-ups with Gavin. Mr. Pielske, BTW, does believe that man has had a significant impact on the climate, but not in the ways that the IPCC and Gavin, et. al. postulate. He believes that man-induced climate change is mostly regional and result from land-use changes. He also is a firm believer that the IPCC has made many mistakes and have not been very honest in their tunnel-vision that everything comes down to man's introduction of fossil-based CO2 emissions.

Bruce Hall is a regular poster on Pielske's blog, as is Graeme Bird. Graeme is a rather colorful character with VERY strong opinions. He seems a little "out-there" if you know what I mean, but his theories are interesting to read nonetheless.
55 posted on 03/15/2007 1:22:35 PM PDT by AaronInCarolina
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To: lepton

bookmark #50 bump


84 posted on 03/17/2007 4:51:25 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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