Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: GraniteStateConservative

You're apparently missing the point. There is most certainly a subset of atheism where the believers define quite strictly what God is and then, because they don't see reality reflected in that definition, they become satisfied that God does not exist. You, for example, believe that because prayers of certain people are "not answered" that God does not exist.

History has shown about a billion and one times that bad things do in fact happen to seemingly good people. It is clear that if one accepts God then they must accept that bad things happen to good people. Take the case of Jessica Lunsford. If you believe the world consists solely of Jessica Lunsford and her barbaric killer, then it might be reasonable to believe that God does not exist. However, we should all be quite aware that the world is well beyond simply two people. God cannot answer every prayer. If God does indeed have a hand in human affairs, bad things may ultimately lead to great things.

Your naive and fatalistic view on the world is troubling. We do not have anarchy and chaos. Clearly, you again define God as a celestial puppetmaster, since "free will" to you only means that we are alone. I suspect that in a truly chaotic and random world, nothing we do or say means anything. Our thoughts and words are merely the result of millions of years of improbable evolution. Of course, in such a world, I find it hard to believe that kindness, mercy, and compassion have any place, yet they do exist in our world.

My first comment on this thread was how atheism was perfect for those with a God complex. You seem to be defining God left and right in a neverending attempt to disprove him - or, at the very least, comfort yourself that His existence is meaningless to you. This speaks to the self-refuting nature of atheism - to disprove God, one must in fact be God himself. This is why you so desperately search for contradictions in the Bible and ultimately end up creating for yourself a patchwork God that you can comfortably "disprove." The fact that there are things in this world that you don't know or understand is apparently terrifying. What it all comes down to is a fear that there is something beyond ourselves.


91 posted on 03/31/2007 6:43:31 AM PDT by flintsilver7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies ]


To: flintsilver7
You're apparently missing the point. There is most certainly a subset of atheism where the believers define quite strictly what God is and then, because they don't see reality reflected in that definition, they become satisfied that God does not exist. You, for example, believe that because prayers of certain people are "not answered" that God does not exist.

I believe that because no prayer to God has ever accomplished the impossible and because prayers are not answered in a systematic, predictable way even though the Bible says they are, and because there is no more evidence to prove God's existence than proof of Zeus or the Tooth Fairy, that believing in God's existence doesn't make the least bit of sense-- as most every adult acknowledges is the case for Zeus and the Tooth Fairy. And I don't know what purpose is served by using quotes between not answered. It's a fact that they weren't answered. No amputee, even the most saintly, has never been healed with a new limb even though healing of ailments is considered an established reward, in at least some cases, of prayer to God. There is not a single reasonable explanation that concerns "God's will" that would necessitate Jessica dying in the fashion she did-- it's just gratuitous. Can any believer provide any explanation for how it could possibly be part of God's will for a believer like Jessica to have her last days unfold the way that they did. God didn't even see fit for Jesus to have his last days spent as horribly as Jessica's were.

History has shown about a billion and one times that bad things do in fact happen to seemingly good people. It is clear that if one accepts God then they must accept that bad things happen to good people. Take the case of Jessica Lunsford. If you believe the world consists solely of Jessica Lunsford and her barbaric killer, then it might be reasonable to believe that God does not exist. However, we should all be quite aware that the world is well beyond simply two people. God cannot answer every prayer. If God does indeed have a hand in human affairs, bad things may ultimately lead to great things.

If one accepts God, then they must accept that there is no rhyme or reason to how frequently bad or good things happen and to whom they happen to. In some places in this world, throughout history and today, a state of barbarism is the world that many people find themselves in. We in the 21st century US are basically shielded from it. And, I am very glad to read that you acknowledge that if there is a God, he is not omnipotent and he may not even have any hand in human affairs either because of his own limitation or his inclination. Frankly, there's not a lot of difference between a God who creates people and leaves them totally alone and a parent who abandons their children at home for a week while they go on vacation. We don't tolerate the latter, justifiably. I don't see why some tolerate the former in God.

Your naive and fatalistic view on the world is troubling. We do not have anarchy and chaos. Clearly, you again define God as a celestial puppetmaster, since "free will" to you only means that we are alone. I suspect that in a truly chaotic and random world, nothing we do or say means anything. Our thoughts and words are merely the result of millions of years of improbable evolution. Of course, in such a world, I find it hard to believe that kindness, mercy, and compassion have any place, yet they do exist in our world.

I don't know how free will is even defined by you because it varies. Some say it's the ability to freely choose to accept the divinity of God and all that's related to that. Some say it's the ability to freely choose what you do. We don't have free will to accept God's divinity because the consequence is an eternity of torture. It's coercion. No different than saying that Jessica had the free will to obey or not obey the orders given to her by John Couey.

And it doesn't make sense to say that as a part of a social contract, that people wouldn't encourage kindness, mercy, and compassion or discover what that means. Empathy isn't that hard of a concept to understand. We can all imagine ourselves in someone else's shoes and be lead to treat others in a kind and merciful and compassionate way-- because we may need the same consideration at some time. It's very beneficial for both parties. Symbiotic relationships are found all throughout nature-- not in just groups that adopt a belief in religion.

My first comment on this thread was how atheism was perfect for those with a God complex. You seem to be defining God left and right in a neverending attempt to disprove him - or, at the very least, comfort yourself that His existence is meaningless to you. This speaks to the self-refuting nature of atheism - to disprove God, one must in fact be God himself. This is why you so desperately search for contradictions in the Bible and ultimately end up creating for yourself a patchwork God that you can comfortably "disprove." The fact that there are things in this world that you don't know or understand is apparently terrifying. What it all comes down to is a fear that there is something beyond ourselves.

The only information I have about the nature of God is from believers and from what is considered an infallible record of his word, the Bible. I'm not defining him at all. He defined himself. I don't have a God complex. That's silly. It makes as much sense to say I have a Tooth Fairy complex. God has a God complex. He thinks he is omnipotent and omnibenevolent and omniscient, despite the evidence to the contrary. I don't seek to disprove God like I don't seek to disprove Santa Claus. Neither have any relevance to me one way or the other.

I'm not terrified by the unknowable or things I don't understand. Not at all. The only people who are terrified are those who cling to ideas that aren't supported at all by logic or reason because those ideas are comforting. I am not worried that there are ghosts or fairies or gods or whatever in some other plane of existence. It's a waste of my time.

99 posted on 03/31/2007 7:40:48 AM PDT by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson