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I've waited a couple of days before diving into this mess. I'd like to try to offer some input as a longtime member here and as someone who's been involved in the conservative movement not just since the Reagan days, but for going on 40 years now, literally since childhood.

1. I am on record here as saying that, in a theoretical matchup between Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Clinton, I'd vote for Giuliani. I had backed off that and changed my mind even before this thread. Not because of his wretched marital record (we have people on our side with unclean hands there), not because he dressed up as a woman at a press dinner (it was to raise money and poke fun at his uptight image and was a takeoff on "Victor-Victoria," Julie Andrews herself was there), but because of his stands on the issues. Not just his past stands on the issues, but things that have been coming out of his mouth recently, and not just on abortion. Bottom line, I simply could not bring myself to support him in any shape, form or fashion and still be able to look at myself in the mirror in the a.m. while shaving. And from the looks of the polls (ignore the media furor about him), it looks like other people are catching on too and IMHO this is in the process of working itself out and will be completely worked out once the primaries are over

2. I am saddened that this thread got so out of hand, that feelings got so heated to the point of people getting banned, including some folks I've conversed with over the years, folks who I don't think are bad people, I don't think are actually in their heart of hearts actual liberals, but who for some reason got over the line in their feelings on this issue and let it overwhelm their usual instincts. I hope that after tempers cool and after a sufficient time of penance, they might be allowed to return even if on probation. If not, the bottom line is that there was provocation involved in what happened to them, I've reread Mr. Robinson's initial post and I don't see any threats to ban anyone if they didn't march in lockstep there, and if you wade through this entire thread, you'll see that he did show some forebearance with people before "pulling the trigger."

3. Why did they get so bent out of shape on this issue? I'll offer my .02. First, while I'm not making light of the threat of Islamic terrorism one bit, it is a major, major, MAJOR issue and source of concern right now. However, I think some folks are so concerned about it that it trumps everything in their eyes, and in their eyes Giuliani is the A-No. 1 candidate to wage a war on Islamic terrorism. Some folks might say "what good is X (insert issue here) if we're getting bombed by al-Qaida?" My response is, "What good is throwing all our eggs in the terrorism basket if we lose our soul as a movement?" Secondly, I think there is a group out there that is so petrified, I mean paralyzed by fear to the point of their bone marrow congealing and their sphincters opening, of a Clinton returning to the White House, that they are thinking about nothing but "we've gotta get somebody to beat Hillary, we've gotta get somebody to beat Hillary, we've gotta get someone to beat Hillary." And again, they view Giuliani as the A-No. 1 candidate to do that. But again, what good is it to put all your eggs in one basket if you lose your soul as a movement? Also, I'm on record here for several years that Hillary Clinton will NOT, I repeat NOT, be the Democratc candidate at the end of the day in 2008, and I'm not backing off on that at all, so the paralyzing fear along those lines is misplaced and could end up being self-destructive in the long run when we end up facing somebody else.

4. I do hope that tempers cool off and that we can re-unify with some of our brothers and sisters because we need a unified movement in 2008 to do what needs to be done, especially with all the roadblocks that are going to be in our way. At the same time I hope that only a fraction of the energy and passion that's been displayed, for good and bad, in this thread can be transferred to that 2008 race, for the purposes of getting a real conservative nominated and elected. If that happens, I think we'll be fine. And it may just be me, but I think directing energy and passion in the proper direction was what the original post here was all about.

5. I'm also on the record here as questioning Fred Thompson's fire in the belly to run for and serve in the presidency. My comment on the morning of April 23, 2007, is ... RUN, FRED, RUN!!!!!