[furquhart]

I’m not convinced at all. Nor, for that matter, am I in any way, shape, or form in favour of illegal aliens. Though I do think that the Points System and the end to family migration - if the rest of the package was actually enforced as described - would be a good thing.

But, let’s be very clear here: simply whining about the President does and contibutes absolutely nothing. And I’ve seen nothing to convince me that 90% or more of the people who are complaning have any idea of what could be done, or any practical alternative, beyond, “I hate illegals.”

Well, that’s all well and good - we all hate illegals. But until and unless you’ve got a plan to actually do something about it, ranthing about the perifidy of “Jorge” Bush does no one any good in the least.

I think - if this bill were enforced (that is to say, were the Z permits to work as described and were the border to be actually closed), it would be workable. I am, however, extremely doubtful if it will br properly enforced.

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So, the choice is this - either work with the President and others along these lines, accepting some kind of compromise to do with the others already here, and moving towards the absolute closure of the Southern border...

Or start advocating that the President declare Martial Law. Because that’s the only way you’ll ever be able to adopt any serious measure against the illegals.

[B4Ranch]

>And I’ve seen nothing to convince me that 90% or more of the people who are complaning have any idea of what could be done, or any practical alternative, beyond, “I hate illegals.”< If you had been with FR back in 2001, 2, 3, & 4, you would have been able to participate in the week long debates we used to have. The whining about the President is well deserved. Open your eyes and see where the blame lies, squarely in the lap of a REPUBLICAN president who is coaxing the dizzy democrats to help him get the Bill to his desk so he can sign it.

[wolfcreek]

Have you checked the latest FR poll? Seems there’s more than a few here who don’t agree with your assertion. This bill is Bad Law to the Nth degree.

If the Prez and Congress continue to ignore the will of the people, they'll need more than martial law to dissuade us.

[P-40]

Because that’s the only way you’ll ever be able to adopt any serious measure against the illegals.

We have laws in place NOW for dealing with them. The problem is, they are not enforced. If this bill becomes law, the situation will remain the same.

[eyedigress]

Do you really believe they will go home and apply for a visa? Do you believe they will pay a 5,000 fine? Julio ain't going anywhere. Build the fence and enforce the temporary visas. Stop the Anchor baby amnesty.
Deport the whole family (if there here illegally)when daddy gets busted for the DUI. Plenty of immigrants apply and receive temporary work visas to be here on a seasonal basis. Outside of that they must apply for citizenship through the normal channels.
Just my thoughts on the matter.

[James W. Fannin]

So, the choice is this - either work with the President and others along these lines, accepting some kind of compromise to do with the others already here, and moving towards the absolute closure of the Southern border...

So we have to accept the unacceptable, or else...

Or start advocating that the President declare Martial Law. Because that’s the only way you’ll ever be able to adopt any serious measure against the illegals.

In other words, America has lost complete civil control, and we can either surrender to the invaders, or lose our freedoms.

If we accept this dilemma, we'll accept anything.

[WOSG]

“But, let’s be very clear here: simply whining about the President does and contibutes absolutely nothing. “

Some people said that during the Harriet Miers fiasco... they were wrong. We got Alito out of our whining!

Maybe if we whined loud enough, the fools in Congress would pass a better bill!

[Marauder]

I am, however, extremely doubtful if it will br properly enforced.

Well, that's the key, isn't it? Selective enforcement of the law has lately been a serious problem in this country.

As a Texan, I am happy to point out that both of my Senators voted "Nay" yesterday, as a result of a storm of faxes sent to them, one of which was mine. I was surprised at two other names on that list: Bernie Sanders (I-VT) and Grand Wizard Robert Byrd (D-WV).