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Time Selects Question for Tancredo: 'Why Do You Hate Mexicans?'
MRC ^ | Tim Graham

Posted on 06/05/2007 5:11:20 PM PDT by chronotrigger

It's been eight weeks since Time magazine redesigned itself, and part of that refurbishment is handing over the "Ten Questions" interview inquiries to the readers instead of Time's reporters. In the June 11 edition, Time's interviewee was Rep. Tom Tancredo, a presidential contender and one of the nation's leading opponents of illegal immigration. Among the questions Time selected for Tancredo was a whopper from Ubaldo Padilla of Oroville, California: "Why do you hate Mexicans?" It wasn't the only snotty question Time picked. There was also James Smith of Phoenix, who asked: "I recently found out my family came from Holland without permission in the 1600s. Should we be sent back?" For the questions: www.time.com

[This item, by Tim Graham, was posted Monday night on the MRC's blog, NewsBusters.org: newsbusters.org ]

(snip)

Since Time Managing Editor Richard Stengel introduced the new format in the March 26 edition, there haven't been any Democrats interviewed. But in the March 12 edition, Time's Massimo Calabresi had ten (mostly softball) questions for Ted Kennedy, one of the nation's leading advocates of an amnesty for illegal immigrants. No one at Time asked him about immigration and why he supposedly hated Americans.

(Excerpt) Read more at mrc.org ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: 2008election; electionbias; immigration; liberalbigots; stillbeatingyourwife; tancredo
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Here, I’ll try to answer Time’s straw man assertions in the way that Tancredo should:

1) Why do you hate Mexicans?

No one said anything about hating anyone - but, rather, I very much love America and want to preserve her unique culture, language, and identity - not sell it down to the river so some mega corporation like GE can make a few extra bucks. What you’ve done is smear me with a lie painted as a question…and the first thing I’m going to do when I’m president is to take a serious look at media ownership rules.

2) “I recently found out my family came from Holland without permission in the 1600s. Should we be sent back?"

I just recently found out that several innocent men have been freed from jail after having been falsely imprisoned; does that mean we should abolish the justice system?

In mathematics, there is a phrase that is often used in mathematical proofs: reductio ad absurdum, reduction to an absurdity. That assertion was a prime example of one. The fact is, under your logic, everyone would either have to go back from where they came (Asians to the Middle East and eventually Africa - American Indians to North America, then Asia, then the Middle East, and then, eventually, Africa - Africans back to specific parts of the continent…) or, everyone who wanted into the country should be allowed in. That’s insane. Billions would come. The citizens of this country have every right to determine who - if anyone - is allowed in; pointing to an outlier in order to justify an illogical argument is…well, insane. It’s clear to me that Time has a tremendous bias here and is attempting to impugn my integrity and my legitimacy, both as a political figure and as a human being - something that is hardly “journalistic," a phrase that I will never again use to describe your biased, politically motivated publication.

http://www.mrc.org/cyberalerts/2007/cyb20070605.asp#4

1 posted on 06/05/2007 5:11:25 PM PDT by chronotrigger
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To: chronotrigger

My question for TIME: “Why do you hate America?”


2 posted on 06/05/2007 5:14:09 PM PDT by Map Kernow ("...stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you..." -Deut. 21:21)
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To: chronotrigger

I hate it when Mexicans reduce all immigration issues to an ethnic question. Do they think we’re stupid, ignorant racists?


3 posted on 06/05/2007 5:15:30 PM PDT by popdonnelly (Our first responsibility is to keep the power of the Presidency out of the hands of the Clintons.)
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To: chronotrigger

“Are you still beating your wife?”


4 posted on 06/05/2007 5:16:03 PM PDT by weegee (Libs want us to learn to live with terrorism, but if a gun is used they want to rewrite the Const.)
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To: chronotrigger

Tancredo plays right into their hands with his over the top retoric.

I am going to point something out here that some on the Right are going to want to hear. The simply fact is we have had these arguments before.

If you are really interested in an honest historical comparison instead of one that merely fits your political opinions, read about the Know Nothings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know-Nothing_movement

Comparing people who voluntarily come to this country with the slaves kidnapped and forced here is absurd.

Some of the arguments being thrown around on the Right today are almost word for word repeats of the same arguments the Know Nothings made against the Irish and the German immigrants in the 1840s.

These are the arguments where you lose me. I can agree with the arguments that base themselves on the idea that this is an overly bureaucratic, unworkable bill. That adding another layer of bureaucracy is a mistake. However. some of the other arguments being put forward are pure emotion based rantings with utterly NO basis in any factual reality.

The argument that the immigrants will some how “destroy the Republic” or “Demographics are fate” are pure nativist rantings.

There is utterly no evidence that Hispanic Immigrants will do any such thing. Anymore then the Germans, the Jews, the Irish, the Blacks, the Chinese, the Japanese et al did. So if you want to argue this issue, I suggest Tancredo stick to the economic or small Govt argument and leave the rest out of it. But when he starts arguing that the Hispanics are the “Wrong sort of Immigrants”, he loses.

Every immigrant group has it share of problem children. But we have gangs and thugs that are native born Americans too. Most of the Hispanics I meet, or served with in the US Military, are descent hard working respectable people. Average voters see the same thing in their daily lives in the Hispanics and they are going to dismiss the sorts of over the top rantings Tancredo engages in as the mindless drivel of either a bigot or nut case.

So if Tancredo wants to win this argument, I suggest he leave the more emotional, over blown rhetoric behind and concentrate on making a calm rational factual argument.

Many of the people who a Presidential Candidate need to convince to vote for him have ancestors that faced the same sort of Nativist opposition when then came to this country. They are not going to be swayed by these sorts of Nativist arguments.

So if Tancredo wants to argue this issue and win, he needs to argue it on the merits NOT on some hysteric nonsense about “the Mexicans are coming, the Mexicans are coming”.


5 posted on 06/05/2007 5:16:12 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (If you will try being smarter, I will try being nicer.)
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To: popdonnelly
I hate it when Mexicans reduce all immigration issues to an ethnic question. Do they think we’re stupid, ignorant racists?

They do think we are stupid.

And we are.

6 posted on 06/05/2007 5:17:05 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: weegee

It’s, “When did you stop beating your wife?”.


7 posted on 06/05/2007 5:17:16 PM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: popdonnelly
Mexican immigrants don’t like illegal immigrants from Guatemala. Figure that one out.
8 posted on 06/05/2007 5:17:26 PM PDT by weegee (Libs want us to learn to live with terrorism, but if a gun is used they want to rewrite the Const.)
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To: popdonnelly
" Do they think we’re stupid, ignorant racists?"

Uh, yes, as a matter of fact they do.

9 posted on 06/05/2007 5:19:38 PM PDT by JustaDumbBlonde (America: Land of the Free Because of the Brave)
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To: chronotrigger
James Smith of Phoenix, who asked: "I recently found out my family came from Holland without permission in the 1600s. Should we be sent back?"

If there is a James Smith of Phoenix, he is incredibly ignorant.

In 1600, there was no United States and immigration laws.


10 posted on 06/05/2007 5:20:06 PM PDT by Uriíel-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: chronotrigger
Why do you hate MExicans?

Hmmmm. Tancredo. Tancredo, Tancredo, Tancredo...

Izzat a Guamanian surname??

11 posted on 06/05/2007 5:20:17 PM PDT by HKMk23 (Nine out of ten orcs attacking Rohan were Saruman's Uruk-hai, not Sauron's! So, why invade Mordor?)
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To: MNJohnnie

There is a taxpayer funded safety net that is already underfunded. It is a financial obligation we will be required to meet through higher taxes.

This was not the case 100 years ago.


12 posted on 06/05/2007 5:21:01 PM PDT by weegee (Libs want us to learn to live with terrorism, but if a gun is used they want to rewrite the Const.)
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To: popdonnelly
Listening to Mexicans talk about Americans it seems to me they think all Americans are Jews, and they don't like the Jews.
13 posted on 06/05/2007 5:22:01 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: potlatch; PhilDragoo; ntnychik; dixiechick2000; Travis McGee; Jeff Head; chronotrigger

MEXICAN BABIE$ ONLY!

ABORT AMERICA BABIES!


14 posted on 06/05/2007 5:22:01 PM PDT by devolve ( _Illegal_Aliens_Killed_25_Americans_Today That*s_25/Day_175/Wk_710/Mo_8500/Yr Compare_Iraq_&_911_)
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To: XeniaSt

American Indians did not secure the borders. Today it is considered a “tragedy” and they have almost completely lost all traces of their culture.


15 posted on 06/05/2007 5:22:24 PM PDT by weegee (Libs want us to learn to live with terrorism, but if a gun is used they want to rewrite the Const.)
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To: chronotrigger

I think it would be easier to point out the United States did not exist in the 1600s.


16 posted on 06/05/2007 5:22:52 PM PDT by RockyMtnMan
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To: JustaDumbBlonde

“Uh, yes, as a matter of fact they do.”

That doesn’t stop them from coming here, does it?

Look, these people are here illegally, they are not citizens, and they have no business telling those of us who are how to run the country.


17 posted on 06/05/2007 5:23:24 PM PDT by popdonnelly (Our first responsibility is to keep the power of the Presidency out of the hands of the Clintons.)
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To: MNJohnnie

Why do you hate “the Right”?


18 posted on 06/05/2007 5:24:12 PM PDT by JustaDumbBlonde (America: Land of the Free Because of the Brave)
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To: MNJohnnie
With me it's all about legal vs illegal and that's all. I don't want to see anybody whose very arrival is a crime get rewarded for their illegal acts.
19 posted on 06/05/2007 5:25:10 PM PDT by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
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To: chronotrigger
I just recently found out that several innocent men have been freed from jail after having been falsely imprisoned; does that mean we should abolish the justice system? In mathematics, there is a phrase that is often used in mathematical proofs: reductio ad absurdum, reduction to an absurdity. That assertion was a prime example of one.

Wow. Much more of a brain under Tom's skull than I gave him credit for. Great job!

20 posted on 06/05/2007 5:25:12 PM PDT by montag813
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To: chronotrigger

Go to your local bookstore. Accidently shake out all the subscription cards in the magazines. Drop the litter in the mailbox.


21 posted on 06/05/2007 5:25:40 PM PDT by samadams2000 (Someone important make......The Call!)
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To: popdonnelly
"That doesn’t stop them from coming here, does it?

No, sir, it doesn't seem to.

" Look, these people are here illegally, they are not citizens, and they have no business telling those of us who are how to run the country."

Absolutely correct as far as I am concerned. Unfortunately, many of our elected officials are listening to the illegals much more closely than they are listening to you and me. Crazy, huh?

22 posted on 06/05/2007 5:28:05 PM PDT by JustaDumbBlonde (America: Land of the Free Because of the Brave)
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To: MNJohnnie
There is utterly no evidence that Hispanic Immigrants will do any such thing.

Nope...but unchecked illegal immigration of non-skilled workers from any country will create more problems for this country than we are willing to handle. It does not matter where they come from, but it does matter what their skills are and what their work ethic is.
23 posted on 06/05/2007 5:28:39 PM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: MNJohnnie
“the Mexicans are coming, the Mexicans are coming”.

Oh don't worry! Silly you! THEY'RE ALREADY HERE!

24 posted on 06/05/2007 5:28:51 PM PDT by Bradís Gramma (See HiJinx's tag line....then DO it!!!!)
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To: MNJohnnie
And what's wrong with nativists? Most of my folks arrived here before 1700, and some before 1600. Many of them found themselves bound in chains on the journey across the Atlantic only to be thrown overboard into a creek or inlet, naked and without means of survival.

Others were literally kidnapped from the sides of icy mountains where they'd been peacefully tending their reindeer and dragged off to a totally undeveloped wilderness for the sole purpose of cutting down trees for use by the Swedish navy.

I bet they, their children, great grand children, and so on down through the generations were quite proud of their survival and how they tamed the land and made it habitable.

By the time they got to the 1700s their settlements were overrun by bizarre people who spoke a strange language; who worshipped God according to unusual rituals, and whose main ambition was to make money.

They had to move far to the West to escape the foreign devils.

Except for George Washington's family, and maybe the Lee's, we'd probably be ahead of things if we could ship 'em all back where they came from.

25 posted on 06/05/2007 5:30:36 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: devolve

Interesting post, since most Hispanics are devout Catholics, and also pro-life.

Not sure what your intent was...


26 posted on 06/05/2007 5:34:11 PM PDT by The Coopster
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To: chronotrigger

“Time selected for Tancredo was a whopper from Ubaldo Padilla of Oroville, California: “Why do you hate Mexicans?” It wasn’t the only snotty question Time picked.”

Dear TIME Editors,

Some questions for you:
When did you stop beating your collective wives with claw hammers?
Why are you secret members of the international pedophile-communist-baby-eating conspiracy?
Why do you hate Americans?


27 posted on 06/05/2007 5:34:47 PM PDT by WOSG (Stop Illegal Immigration. Call your Senator today. Senate Switchboard at 202-224-3121.))
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To: MNJohnnie

Hmmm 1840’s to 1850’s, that is only a decade before what? Oh yeah THE CIVIL WAR! You sir are a rocket surgeon.

Go back more than a few hundred years and you’ll see that the ‘immigrants’ DECIMATED the Roman Empire. Have you ever heard of the phrase “The Barbarians at the gates”? That is exactly what can happen here without our vigilance.

We didn’t have SSI, Medicare, FREE schooling, etc... for the illegal Irish, Germans, etc to milk from in the 1850’s.

We didn’t have 30% of the illegal immigrant population in prison in the 1850’s.

I could keep going, but I digress...for now.


28 posted on 06/05/2007 5:35:59 PM PDT by SFC Chromey (We are at war with Islamofascists, now ACT LIKE IT!)
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To: chronotrigger

Have the editors at Time stopped beating their wives yet?


29 posted on 06/05/2007 5:37:13 PM PDT by Hardastarboard (DemocraticUnderground.com is an internet hate site.)
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To: chronotrigger
"I recently found out my family came from Holland without permission in the 1600s. Should we be sent back?"

Dissing the Pilgrims, huh?

-PJ

30 posted on 06/05/2007 5:37:18 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (It's still not safe to vote Democrat.)
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To: MNJohnnie
The operative word her, MN, is "illegal". No one has a problem with legal immigration. The problem is that we have all of these millions here who are criminals--they broke the law.

And yes, these illegal immigrants will change our society. By and large, they are uneducated--many do not even read Spanish. One more thing: do a search on the word "reconquista"

How many billions of dollars more should we spend to have so much printed twice--even down to our voting ballots? This was not done for other large groups of immigrants--not the Irish, or anyone else.

31 posted on 06/05/2007 5:39:34 PM PDT by basil (Support the Second Amendment--buy another gun today!)
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To: chronotrigger
1) Ubaldo Padilla asks:Why do you hate Mexicans?

One might ask that to the Mexican government since they are encouraging their poor to get out of Mexico and swamp this country with their poverty.

It's not about the Mexicans so much but obeying our laws. No wonder the folks at Times or "Ubaldo Padilla" are so confused and the concept is way too far above them that they can't even fathom what laws means nor why they exist.

.....unless Times or Ubaldo Padilla are really into slave labor, they should say so.

2) “James Smith aks: I recently found out my family came from Holland without permission in the 1600s. Should we be sent back?"

Well, yea...... if all of your family are just as whacked out as you, you all SHOULD go back.

But just in case you you haven;t figured it our as yet, what WAS the immigration laws in the 1600s? Again, I think you DO need to go back where you come from.
32 posted on 06/05/2007 5:40:23 PM PDT by Tut
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To: chronotrigger

My mother is Mexican. Born and raised in California. I remember her complaining about the illegals when I was growing up.


33 posted on 06/05/2007 5:41:11 PM PDT by HungarianGypsy
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To: SFC Chromey
We didn’t have 30% of the illegal immigrant population in prison in the 1850’s.

Sorry, I'm going to have to call BS on this one. Hispanics don't make up for anywhere near 30 percent of the prison population in the US, and to say that 30 percent of illegal aliens are in jail is patently ridiculous - especially if you buy into the numbers that are supposed to be here.

So, no matter which way you meant it, it seems to be patently false.

Feel free to clarify, and then please back it up with a credible link.

34 posted on 06/05/2007 5:41:55 PM PDT by The Coopster
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To: chronotrigger
James Smith of Phoenix, who asked: "I recently found out my family came from Holland without permission in the 1600s. Should we be sent back?"

No. Just you James. For asking a stupid question.

35 posted on 06/05/2007 5:42:05 PM PDT by lowbridge ("The mainstream media IS the Democratic Party." - Rush Limbaugh)
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To: MNJohnnie

This is a ridiculous post. Past German immigration and irish immigration caused some problems - a lot less with Germans who once they learned the language caused few problems, mass Irish immigration into American cities caused problems - read up on the New York City irish draft riots (Blacks targeted for murder), yeah we came through it OK, but there were major policy changes made to address real problems (crime, public health, political corruption through block ethnic Machine Democrat parties).

Mass immigration now from rural Mexico and especially Central America caused huge problems for America. No amount of propaganda name calling (”You’re a RACIST, KNOW NOTHING”) is going to get Americans to accept the lie that North American Anglo culture is the same as the culture from war torn Nicaragua, El Salvador. Think East LA is a nice “American” place to live now? Few Americans do.

Also, note that Mexico has very strict laws and policies for people who want to come into Mexico, Mexico has armed troops on its Southern border with Guatemala - invading illegal aliens trying to sneak in to Mexico face Mexican troops who will shoot the invaders.

OK, so enough spins, propaganda. Mass immigration in the age after 9/11/01 is opposed by most Americans. It is just common sense.

stoptheamnesty.com


36 posted on 06/05/2007 5:42:13 PM PDT by john cant stand michael moore (Saw this idiot's speech to LA RAZA on Youtube)
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To: MNJohnnie
The logic, or lack of, of your argument is where You lose me.

Immigration is not the issue.

Illegal immigration is an entirely different matter.

The immigrants from Europe came through one portal, did they not? And they were screened. Controlled entry into this country.

The argument that the immigrants will some how “destroy the Republic” or “Demographics are fate” are pure nativist rantings.

By that statement, I have to ask if you are thinking that there will be no impact on Social Security, the health care system (which has already been over-run by THEIR numbers), the education system.....with the additional burden of 20 million INSTANT citizens. Followed closely by all of their relatives.

Seems like a good way to "Destroy the Republic" to me.

There is utterly no evidence that Hispanic Immigrants will do any such thing. Anymore then the Germans, the Jews, the Irish, the Blacks, the Chinese, the Japanese et al did.

Of course there is no evidence (duh!) - we have never let something of this scale happen before!

Most of the Hispanics I meet, or served with in the US Military, are descent hard working respectable people.

Ditto from me. Your circle of friends is obviously very much larger than mine. Like 20 million.

They all on your Christmas card list, too?

Average voters see the same thing in their daily lives in the Hispanics and they are going to dismiss the sorts of over the top rantings Tancredo engages in as the mindless drivel of either a bigot or nut case.

Sorry, Johnnie, Tancredo is not the one spouting "mindless drivel"

37 posted on 06/05/2007 5:43:03 PM PDT by LasVegasMac (Give me 10 days and we'll be at war with those SOB's - I'll make it look like their fault!")
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To: Map Kernow

Time Magazine, why do you hate America?

this should become a T-shirt


38 posted on 06/05/2007 5:43:51 PM PDT by LtKerst (Lt Kerst)
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To: chronotrigger

“I recently found out my family came from Holland without permission in the 1600s. Should we be sent back?”

Since there was no one around to give or withhold permission, I would say no.


39 posted on 06/05/2007 5:44:02 PM PDT by popdonnelly (Our first responsibility is to keep the power of the Presidency out of the hands of the Clintons.)
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To: MNJohnnie
So if Tancredo wants to win this argument, I suggest he leave the more emotional, over blown rhetoric behind and concentrate on making a calm rational factual argument.

You are just about the last person who should be advising anyone to avoid "the more emotional, over blown rhetoric".

You are one of the worst, if not the worst, offender of that advice on FR, Johnnie.

40 posted on 06/05/2007 5:44:20 PM PDT by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: chronotrigger

Did they ask Hillary why she hates Jews?


41 posted on 06/05/2007 5:45:24 PM PDT by Redcloak (The 2nd Amendment isn't about sporting goods.)
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To: weegee

1) The Amerindians don’t have the concept of “Borders”. Depending on the tribes, they are either nomadic or have a loose idea of where their territory ends. Depending on the tribe “illegal aliens” are either greeted with peace pipes (or somehthing similar) or tomahawks (or sth similar).

2)You just conceded to the left that the colonization of the Americas is a bad thing and that the WASP were going around killing the natives. Nothing could be further from the truth. It was a war between two factions. The only reason the Euro descendants won is because of superior technology and the help from fellow Indians. Without this, Amerca would be roughly cut in one half, the Indian territories and the American territories.

3) They lost their culture because many of their young adopted ours. The same is happening all around the world. All the years of forcibly assimilating (ok, this is where the WASPS are wrong) did not have as much of an impact compared to the voluntary adoption by adolescents of contemporary US culture. They didn’t lose their culture because of “illegal immigration.” It was a war where the descendants of the AI adopted the culture of the victors because they deemed it superior.

I wish we’d stop using this stupid argument. Not only is it fallacious and wrong, it gives ammo to the communists and the professional victims that Whitey sucks and should pay into eternity for their “crimes”. Well if we are paying, they should pay to because they weren’t exactly nice guys you know.

I’m not paying for the sins of all those who share my ethnicity and religion. Considering that I’m descended from four groups, I’d be bankrupt. Their sins are theirs and theirs alone.


42 posted on 06/05/2007 5:50:37 PM PDT by Killborn (BASH BUSH!! All the COOL kids are doing it!!!! Perfect for people with no logic or reason!)
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To: john cant stand michael moore

“Past German immigration and irish immigration caused some problems - a lot less with Germans who once they learned the language caused few problems, mass Irish immigration into American cities caused problems - read up on the New York City irish draft riots “

Don’t forget that often, the Irish were immediately signed on to fighting for the Union. Right off the boat escaping the potato famine. Great way to enter a country.


43 posted on 06/05/2007 5:52:08 PM PDT by combat_boots (She lives! 22 weeks, 9.5 inches. Go, baby, go!)
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To: chronotrigger

Here’s how the media would publish your comments IF you were Tancredo. First your statements:

1) Why do you hate Mexicans?

No one said anything about hating anyone - but, rather, I very much love America and want to preserve her unique culture, language, and identity - not sell it down to the river so some mega corporation like GE can make a few extra bucks. What you’ve done is smear me with a lie painted as a question…and the first thing I’m going to do when I’m president is to take a serious look at media ownership rules.

2) “I recently found out my family came from Holland without permission in the 1600s. Should we be sent back?”

I just recently found out that several innocent men have been freed from jail after having been falsely imprisoned; does that mean we should abolish the justice system?

In mathematics, there is a phrase that is often used in mathematical proofs: reductio ad absurdum, reduction to an absurdity. That assertion was a prime example of one. The fact is, under your logic, everyone would either have to go back from where they came (Asians to the Middle East and eventually Africa - American Indians to North America, then Asia, then the Middle East, and then, eventually, Africa - Africans back to specific parts of the continent…) or, everyone who wanted into the country should be allowed in. That’s insane. Billions would come. The citizens of this country have every right to determine who - if anyone - is allowed in; pointing to an outlier in order to justify an illogical argument is…well, insane. It’s clear to me that Time has a tremendous bias here and is attempting to impugn my integrity and my legitimacy, both as a political figure and as a human being - something that is hardly “journalistic,” a phrase that I will never again use to describe your biased, politically motivated publication.

And then their reporting:

1) Why do you hate Mexicans?

I very much love...some mega corporation like GE. The first thing I’m going to do is to take a look at media owners.

2) “I recently found out my family came from Holland without permission in the 1600s. Should we be sent back?”

I just recently found out that several innocent men have been freed from jail after having been falsely imprisoned; we should abolish the justice system.

Everyone would have to go back from where they came. The citizens of this country have every right to point to an outlier in order to justify an illogical argument is. It’s clear to me that Time has tremendous integrity and legitimacy.


44 posted on 06/05/2007 5:52:22 PM PDT by gotribe ( I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution... - Grover Cleveland.)
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To: MNJohnnie

Good post. Right on about the overblown rhetoric and emotion.


45 posted on 06/05/2007 5:55:19 PM PDT by Killborn (BASH BUSH!! All the COOL kids are doing it!!!! Perfect for people with no logic or reason!)
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To: The Coopster; potlatch; PhilDragoo; ntnychik; dixiechick2000; Travis McGee; Jeff Head; ...

.

It’s obvious

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Votes

democrats need replacement voters

They are losing voter base without illegal aliens and this bill

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childbirth ratios:

democrats have about 75 kids

Republicans have about 104 kids

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Hillary promotes abortions for Americans

You never see Hillary pushing abortions before La Raza

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PS: Hispanics (or others) who are in the USA are “devout” criminals using stolen illegally obtained or counterfeited IDs and documents

If crime is OK for them why would it be wrong for someone to carjack your vehicle, loot your home, steal your SS# and ID, raid your banl accuounts, get credit cards in your name?

Illegal aliens kill 25 Americans every day - Congressman Steve King

How “pro-life” is that?

This has zero to do with religion - or those in the clergy that willfully and knowingly break federal, state, and local laws to fill their empty pews and offering plates (but not insisting illegal aliens pay income and other taxes)

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46 posted on 06/05/2007 5:56:55 PM PDT by devolve ( _Illegal_Aliens_Killed_25_Americans_Today That*s_25/Day_175/Wk_710/Mo_8500/Yr Compare_Iraq_&_911_)
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To: MNJohnnie

Why do you have such hatred for people who would put America/ns interests first?


47 posted on 06/05/2007 6:00:23 PM PDT by abigailsmybaby (I was born with nothing. So far I have most of it left.)
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To: MNJohnnie

“Every immigrant group has it share of problem children. But we have gangs and thugs that are native born Americans too. Most of the Hispanics I meet, or served with in the US Military, are descent hard working respectable people.”

So what?
Most people of any ethnic group are “good people”.
Why this nonsense of tying it to “Mexicans” or “Hispanics”? It’s a complete red herring. This is about the fact that illegal immigrants who according to law should not be here are being allowed to be here. To give amnesty to lawbreakers is a slap in the face to legal immigrants and undermines rule of law. There are brilliant and wonderful people from Ireland, including my relatives, but if there is an Irish illegal immigrant, the appropriate remedy is deportation.

As for the influence of immigrants, one major problem is confusing legal immigration with illegal immigration; immigration today vs 100 years ago when skills needed in the economy were different. Apples v oranges. There are positives to having a member of society who is here to work. So let’s not cut immigration to nothing. OTOH, there is plenty of evidence that buying into legalization for 12 million illegal immigrants, the majority of them from Mexico and with low education and skill levels, is in effect importing poverty and creating a new ethnic-based underclass. This will worsen inequality, add to the welfare state costs ($2.5 trillion 25 year cost on Federal govt), impose unfunded mandates on states and local govts, and make our politics far more leftwing and disagreeable to the conservative view. This is not emotional statement, but clear and based on evidence. The amnesty of 2007 is as big in about 20 states as the 1986 amnesty was in California.

As goes Cali from 1986 to 2007 so goes the nation in 20 years... Is that what you want, MNJohnnie????

Last, I agree that Tancredo is not the man we need to run for President. But if a few people are being over the top, so be it. Al Gore is over-the-top on Global Warming, yet he is praised as some kind of prophet. Sometimes you need a lightning rod to get attention.


48 posted on 06/05/2007 6:02:20 PM PDT by WOSG (Stop Illegal Immigration. Call your Senator today. Senate Switchboard at 202-224-3121.))
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To: popdonnelly
In all fairness there are many Americans who don't like Mexicans for cultural reasons. Many feel that Mexican immigration will somehow degrade American culture. They probably want a return to the immigration quotas of the early last century, and for the same reason those quotas were originally established; to preserve America's unique culture, language, and identity; which are threatened by immigration legal and illegal.

I can marshal no sympathy for their arguments because I'm still looking for American culture. And, given the history of American immigration policy, I feel the legalist argument is problematic at best.

The economic and defense arguments make more sense, but both often suffer from being combined with the sentiments of the cultural Identitarians (Identitarianism, I should point out, is historically a leftist idea).

49 posted on 06/05/2007 6:07:52 PM PDT by Pelayo
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To: weegee
Mexican immigrants don’t like illegal immigrants from Guatemala. Figure that one out.

I got a good story for you.

Me and some friends were at a bar and this came up, and a mexican fellow asked us why we don't want mexican illegals here, one of my friends said "the same reason you don't want illegals from central americans in your country".

This mexican guy went off on a long blubbering incoherent racist speech about the countries in central america, and why they were all bad.....and then kept rambling on about how horrible the people were from each south american country (going one by one), until the staff threw him out.

The kicker, as the bouncer was dragging him out (with this guy still screaming racist remarks about people from columbia) someone yelled out "don't just drag him out the door, take him back across the border".

It was a very surreal moment (funny, then disturbing). He soundled like a cracked out la raza klansman.

50 posted on 06/05/2007 6:13:33 PM PDT by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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