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The unintended consequences of the ethanol quick fix
Christian Science Monitor ^ | July 27, 2007 | Ray Nothstine

Posted on 07/26/2007 5:46:51 PM PDT by PJ-Comix

Grand Rapids, Mich. - Ronald Reagan once said that the most terrifying words in the English language are, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." His one-liner immediately comes to mind when looking at the problems behind the federal government's campaign to boost production of corn-based ethanol with a massive 51-cent-per-gallon subsidy.

(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: energy; ethanol
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To: Nathan Zachary

Give me a break. I quoted you. You are full of crap, and spare me the “I grew up on a farm” garbage.


41 posted on 07/26/2007 9:00:42 PM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: PJ-Comix
"Ethanol is the price we pay for making Iowa so important in the nomination process."

Bingo! Very perceptive!

42 posted on 07/26/2007 9:10:11 PM PDT by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism.)
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To: padre35
it is only a matter of time until China and India BOTH use as much gasoline as the we the US do, meaning market scarcity will drive up costs of gasoline use

. . .

The fed govt's role should be to facilitate the building of infrastructure, and BTW we would bankrupt Iran if we do it quickly enough...

It appears that you are undermining your own argument. How, exactly, are we going to "bankrupt Iran" by reducing US oil consumption, when according to your own statement, growing demand in China and India will more than replace the US demand?

43 posted on 07/26/2007 9:12:30 PM PDT by Zeppo (We live in the Age of Stupidity. [Dennis Prager])
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To: PJ-Comix

Ethanol - what a bargain - one acre of good farmland tied up for four months to produce fifty gallons of product - when are the greenies going to smarten up and realize that their alternate energy schemes are all so inefficient that they’ll bankrupt the country trying to implement them - or is bankruptcy really what they’re after.......


44 posted on 07/26/2007 9:16:02 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: padre35

Well, I can see we are not going to agree, but before I quit for the night I’ll try this:

1- 3 mil barrels of oil a day more in US production would kick the bottom right out of prices. And we have the oil.

2 - There simply isn’t anyway now or 5 or 10 years from now we can produce ethanol in amounts significant enough to impact petroleum needs.

3 - The impact of accessing the clean coal we have in the continental US would be logarithmically greater than any potential ethanol production could be.

4 - Usually over looked in these discussions is the fact that the majority of a barrel of oil does not go to gasoline. Petroleum provides many thousands of products that can’t be made from biofuels.


45 posted on 07/26/2007 9:18:39 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s........you weren't really there)
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To: Zeppo

Iran at the moment is totally dependent on oil revenues to pay for not only the day to day expenses of a country, but it’s nuke program, support for jihaddy’s in Iraq and a military build up.

“IF” we could get Ethanol rapidly into use in the US, the world’s current largest consumer of oil would no longer need as much oil

Eventually China and India would pick up the slack in the long term, in the short term, Iran would be bankrupt.


46 posted on 07/26/2007 9:32:44 PM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile.)
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To: Nathan Zachary

BTW, you do know that different types of corn have different qualities, yes? Ever tried to eat feed corn? I once was sold feed corn ears at a store. I tried boiling it for two days (because I wasn’t paying fuel costs), and it still wasn’t edible.


47 posted on 07/26/2007 9:35:12 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: ChildOfThe60s

Those are all short term things, 3 million barrels a day, how about 4 billion people who want cars in the next ten years?

Your 3 million barrels assumes a oil market where “we” dominate in consumption, in the near future, it won’t “We” it will be “us”.

IMO, coal has a role in either power plant fuel, or liquifying it and refine it into normal crude, the last time I checked, oil over 45 dollars a barrel meant that fuel from coal was priced competitively with normal oil.

But every 5 years or so, the number of people who want that fuel is going to go upwards, demographics is destiny I’m afraid childofthe60’s as China and India grow more prosperous, they will want more Americanish things, like cars and 24/7 electricity.


48 posted on 07/26/2007 9:38:37 PM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile.)
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To: Steak

Corn stalks/husks and grasses are a major feed for dairies, they are not unneeded.


49 posted on 07/26/2007 9:52:10 PM PDT by Cold Heart
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To: jwh_Denver

That was not a complaint and that remark is out of line.


50 posted on 07/27/2007 2:38:32 AM PDT by Racer1
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To: xcamel
Only a fool would think that the $.50 per bushel increase in the value of corn from last year to this makes much difference in the price of a gallon of milk.

Even assuming that retail milk prices were determined by the dairyman's cost of production (they aren't), the influence of the price of corn would be minimal. A Holstein dairy cow will produce about 8 gallons of milk per day. A $.50 increase in the cost of corn translates into an average increase in the cost of a lactating cow's daily feed ration of about $.15, or $.02 per gallon (and even that assumes the dairyman has no ability to substitute other ingredients such as ddg's in the ration).

51 posted on 07/27/2007 6:53:36 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: hophead
"Yogurt went from .69 to .99 OVERNIGHT! And I get LESS MPG’s per gallon with this crud."

I expect its pretty hard on the fuel pump and injectors as well.

52 posted on 07/27/2007 7:12:01 AM PDT by norton
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To: PJ-Comix

The author of that piece is very intelligent. I like how he writes


53 posted on 07/27/2007 7:53:35 AM PDT by Reagan79 (Ralph Stanley & The Clinch Mountain Boys)
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To: xcamel

>Only a fool would use his food for fuel.<

Particularly when it takes more petroleum to produce the equivalent amount of ethanol.

Talk about the dog chasing its tail!


54 posted on 07/27/2007 8:02:27 AM PDT by Darnright
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To: Mr. Lucky

Go look at the CBT charts and rethink your position...


55 posted on 07/27/2007 8:12:28 AM PDT by xcamel ("It's Talk Thompson Time!" >> irc://irc.freenode.net/fredthompson)
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To: xcamel
OK, September corn is currently trading at $3.18 per bushel.

How much corn do you think a lactating dairy cow will consume in a day?

56 posted on 07/27/2007 8:18:29 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: Mr. Lucky
One cow? you have to be kidding me...
How about 100, or 200 or 500? How about the cost of production? how about the grains **not** being planted to make more room for corn ethanol? How does this effect the price of your feed when there is **less** grain, or beet pulp, or silage for feed? How much has your meat gone up? Your Corn flakes? Your Soda? apply that to 300 million people...How many dairy's are just closing down because they can't afford to operate? How many are switching over to just growing non food/feed corn?
$1 worth of ethanol is costing Americans about $3.75 by now.
57 posted on 07/27/2007 8:36:02 AM PDT by xcamel ("It's Talk Thompson Time!" >> irc://irc.freenode.net/fredthompson)
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To: xcamel

I take it that you really don’t have a whole lot of experience in agriculture, do you?


58 posted on 07/27/2007 8:39:06 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: NVDave

Ping


59 posted on 07/27/2007 8:46:25 AM PDT by investigateworld ( Those BP guys will do more prison time than many convicted Japanese war criminals ...thanks Bush!)
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To: 1rudeboy

Agave are dying from fungi among other parasitical attackers; they must grow to a certain age for tequila production so if they are sickly or dying they will never make an economical crop.

The soil best suited for agave is totally unsuited for corn; a lot of amendment and irrigation will be necessary to switch over.


60 posted on 07/27/2007 8:47:30 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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