“Before you had that property, did you have rights in this society? Yes, as protected in the Billorights. Before some communist bought it, fenced it off, and decided it was a communist parking lot, did someone passing by have rights to freedom of speech and to carry a gun on that property? Yes.”
I don’t understand what you’re saying here. What do communists have to do with this? Communism is the opposite of private property.
If you are suggesting that someone can come to my house and say anything he wants to because of freedom of speech, you don’t understand freedom of speech. You are free to speak in public. On my property I can make demands upon your behavior. If you don’t like my demands you are free to leave. But you have no right to free speech on private property. The same applies to guns or religion. I can ban Christians from my home if I want to.
Our Constitutional Rights don’t apply to demands a private citizen makes of visitors to his private property.
I don’t understand what you’re saying here. What do communists have to do with this? Communism is the opposite of private property.
***True enough and well said. Before that property was owned by a private individual and it was raw land in the U.S., it was a property that we citizens had 1st & 2nd amendment rights over. Anyone who wanted to could go out to that clump of land and give a sermon with a gun in his hand. But then that property got bought by someone with an authoritarian bent, and he decided that these citizens should not have such rights, so he took them away. I’m not talking about a guy living in his house, I’m talking about a guy setting up shop and engaging citizens in commerce. If the citizens get upset enough, they can picket his property at the sidewalk and carry guns while doing so. Those 1st & 2nd amendment rights existed before that authoritarian bought that property and they still exist. Those citizens could sue him for taking away their rights. If citizens did this on a regular basis, employers would not be engaging in such activity. Those rights STILL EXIST even though there is an authoritarian dude who owns the property and wants to tell these citizens not to exercise their rights. The enforcement of such rights becomes an inductive pursuit.
If you are suggesting that someone can come to my house and say anything he wants to because of freedom of speech, you don’t understand freedom of speech.
***No, I’m not saying your house. I’m saying your place of business where you choose to take away the rights of these citizens in this land you chose to set up shop in. Do citizens have a right to come and knock on your door at your house to ask you a question? Probably. And as soon as you tell them to leave, they can be arrested for trespassing if they do not leave because you own the property. We are NOT talking about your private residence — any further redirecting of the argument onto private residency will be pointed out for what it is, a straw argument. But if that property is for commercial use and you’re inviting regular citizens onto it for conducting business, the constitution has a few things to say about the rights of the people you let onto your property. The bill of rights protects certain rights like freedom of speech and religion. If you choose to ban christians from your workplace, your business is likely to get shut down. For now. The tide is changing on this aspect because of the unpopularity of Christ, but that doesn’t mean that right doesn’t exist.
You are free to speak in public. On my property I can make demands upon your behavior. If you don’t like my demands you are free to leave.
***You are free to set up shop in my country. In my country we have the right to speak our minds, freedom of religion. If you don’t like that, you are free to leave and set up shop in another country.
But you have no right to free speech on private property.
***By engaging in business, it is no longer just a private property where you live.
The same applies to guns or religion. I can ban Christians from my home if I want to.
***Yes, you can ban christians from your home. The constitution protects christians at the work place, the same constitution that delineates private property rights of ownership.
Our Constitutional Rights don’t apply to demands a private citizen makes of visitors to his private property.
***Here’s where the right to private property came from: the constitution. Here’s where the right to 1st & 2nd amendments came from: the constitution. Well, okay, they “came from” the Creator and the constitution outlines certain rights that it chooses to protect for us citizens. It is the same constitution that allows you to buy a piece of property — the same constitution that outlines my rights to freedom of religion. If you want to put up a sign at the front of your business that says, “you no longer have constitutional rights when you cross this line”, your business will be shut down pretty fast. For instance, I don’t give up my rights to freedom, to not be a slave, just because I cross that line. When you put up a business, you are not allowed under the constitution to declare slavery for anyone who comes into your place of business — that’s the 14th amendment. The 1st & 2nd amendments are also still in place. The question of enforcement of those rights is fun and interesting, but that does not mean we do not have those rights.