Posted on 10/30/2007 12:08:40 PM PDT by delacoert
Sometimes things happen in American politics that make no sense at all. We are experiencing just one of those moments in the 2008 presidential campaign.
I thought that the concept of a religious test for public office in our country was put to bed once and for all when John Kennedy, a Catholic, was elected president in 1960 and Joe Lieberman, an Orthodox Jew, was nominated for vice president in 2000.
Now we have a candidate with a record of accomplishment, Mitt Romney, who is consistently lagging in the polls with the most credible reason being that significant numbers of Republican primary voters will not support him because of his Mormon religion.
When voters, particularly in the South, are asked to identify candidates that they would not support for president under any circumstances, Romney leads the list. Romney is rejected as a potential presidential candidate in this type polling more often than other polarizing figures such as Rudy Giuliani. It has become increasingly clear that many conservative voters will not support an otherwise qualified candidate who happens to be a Mormon.
As a Democrat, I wouldn’t vote for Romney in the general election if he is nominated by the Republican Party. But I’ll be damned if I can understand why he should be disqualified from seeking his party’s nomination because of his religion. This makes no logical sense in the world’s greatest democracy in the 21st century.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
What has the Mormon Church historically taught about Christianity?
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Mormon Church Condemns Christians "In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" "My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join." "I was answered by God that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” He again forbade me to join with any of them;..." "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" "For centuries men gathered and argued concerning the nature of Deity. Constantine assembled scholars of various factions at Nicaea in the year 325. After two months of bitter debate, they compromised on a definition which for generations has been the doctrinal statement among Christians concerning the Godhead." "I invite you to read that definition and compare it with the statement of the boy Joseph. He simply says that God stood before him and spoke to him. Joseph could see Him and could hear Him. He was in form like a man, a being of substance. Beside Him was the resurrected Lord, a separate being, whom He introduced as His Beloved Son and with whom Joseph also spoke." "I submit that in the short time of that remarkable vision Joseph learned more concerning Deity than all of the scholars and clerics of the past." "This knowledge of Deity, hidden from the world for centuries, was the first and great thing which God revealed to His chosen servant. And upon the reality and truth of this vision rests the validity of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" "And the angel of God said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people." "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." "Instead of having apostles, prophets, and other inspired men in the church now, receiving visions, dreams, revelations, ministry of angels and prophesies for the calling of officers, and for the government of the church--they have a wicked, corrupt, uninspired pope, or uninspired archbishops, bishops, clergymen, etc., who have a great variety of corrupt forms of godliness, but utterly deny the gift of revelation, and every other miraculous power which always characterized Christ's Church." "These manmade, powerless, hypocritical, false teachers, make merchandise of the people, by preaching for large salaries, amounting in many instances to tens of thousands of dollars annually. They and their deluded followers are reprobate, denouncing the faith once delivered to the Saints." "...the Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable, ...But with the Bible it was not and is not so....it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization (Christianity), founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was." "Our entire case as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints rests on the validity of this glorious First Vision. ... Nothing on which we base our doctrine, nothing we teach, nothing we live by is of greater importance than this initial declaration. I submit that if Joseph Smith talked with God the Father and His Beloved Son, then all else of which he spoke is true. This is the hinge on which turns the gate that leads to the path of salvation and eternal life." [There is] "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God" "No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are... [Joseph Smith] reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true."
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Yes. I think I see your point. If Mormons try to climb out from under one bash, bury them with another.
When a person tells a lie, chances are they'll get caught.
Some lies you can live with, some you can't.
For example, the lie that the Lamanites are descendants of Jews who came to the Americas around 600 BC is a colossal lie.
It's unavoidable Mormon scripture and foundation doctrine, yet it is verifiably false. That a person would cling to and defend such a faith says something to me about that person's moral compass. Something I won't be able to cast my vote for.
That was a bash.
I’m not saying that ... however, most Americans have been lead to believe by books and other material that The Church of Later Day Saints aka Mormons are a cult. Right or wrong that’s the opinion presented most heavily.
And if the second bash doesn’t work, try a couple of lies and a third bash.
Not Mormonism.
Flip-flopism.
That link’s going in the research folder!
Hey, it's great to know that LDS "prophets," general authorities & leaders have been so "civil" toward Christians through the decades.
You make it tough for LDS posters to duck reality when you expose them to a reality check.
(Oh, for y'all, please note the references to the two Pratts. Orson is Mitt Romney's great-great-great uncle; and Parley P. Pratt is his great-great-great grandfather...And BTW, I noticed another article posted today that mentioned that Mitt considered his Mormonism "true blue, through and through." So, if anybody doesn't think these quotes are relevant to this thread, think again).
(Nice job, GF)
OK, "cult" status is intrinsically a worship-based word.
Yes, and last I checked they were a denomination that was nominally Christian. Either their practices are Christian or they are not, ie , cultic. If they decide to let self-proclaimed witches become bishops, would they still be christian? Open apostates in clerical roles, and still be christian? ... (I don't think Episcopalians, no matter how far off they are, are worshipping sexual minority lifestyles & bishops, do you?)
Then you havent been paying attention.
“I think we’re more serious than that. And more fair-minded.”
Most are.
But a few have their anti-mormon hangups and issues to work out.
Romney’s Mormon background has nothing to do with me not voting for him.
It’s because he looks, talks and acts like a slimy used car salesman.....I mean, I mean a polished politician.
Yes, but still Christian. And certainly some members showing more spiritual fruit than others (true of all Christian denominations) and some rectors more than others and some churches more than others.
But the denomination as a whole is losing members, both due to demographics (age) and slipping-away membership. McCain, long id'd as an Episcopalian, is now attending a Baptist church.
Either their practices are Christian or they are not, ie , cultic. If they decide to let self-proclaimed witches become bishops, would they still be christian? Open apostates in clerical roles, and still be christian?...
Well, I'm not out to be the Episcopalians' apologist. On the one hand, I think, "Well, if we want to dump the entire denomination into the spiritual sewer because of the actions of a few, I'm not sure that's the way to go..." On the other hand, if the many aren't provoked by those actions of the few, then generally speaking, they are more a part of the problem than the solution. So I can't really argue against what you're saying here because I'm more in agreement with you than not.
In my mind, I keep coming back to OT Israel's 12 tribes. Some of those tribes were way off base at times, and yet God was still quite patient with them. Other times, He told them "Enough is enough. Repent or..."
Last poll i saw more Democrat voters then Republican voters would disqualify on the basis someone is a mormon. Perhaps he might want to check out that detail before lecturing the right.
Also, I reject Mitt because he’s a opportunist that plays whatever role is needed to advance himself. Not because of his religion.
As for his religion, he’s free to believe what he wants to believe. I don’t feel being a Mormon is a disqualifier for political office. At the same time, he can say he and I share the same faith all he likes...my answer will still be no we don’t.
gf39, I'm truly amazed by the words of Parley P. You better believe that link went into my library. Who knows when it may come in handy! Check your mail, and regards.
Kennedy wasn't the first Catholic to run for President. Al Smith was the "Marine" who landed first, paving the way for Kennedy. Perhaps if George Romney's religion had been mentioned forty years ago, he could have been blazed a trail for his son's presidential quest.
First time, it's a big deal. Second time, it's no-big-deal.
“False idols” is redundant. All idols are false gods. The term “false idols” implies that there are true idols, and we know that there aren’t any true idols.
You are correct
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