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The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise,(military chiefs red-faced)
The Daily Mail (UK) ^ | 10th November 2007 | MATTHEW HICKLEY

Posted on 11/09/2007 4:55:08 PM PST by fanfan

When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible shield to detect and deter any intruders.

That is the theory. Or, rather, was the theory.

American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.

By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy.

The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat.

One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile aircraft or submarines.

And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

According to the Nato source, the encounter has forced a serious re-think of American and Nato naval strategy as commanders reconsider the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S. fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as coincidence.

Analysts believe Beijing was sending a message to America and the West demonstrating its rapidly-growing military capability to threaten foreign powers which try to interfere in its "backyard".

The People's Liberation Army Navy's submarine fleet includes at least two nuclear-missile launching vessels.

Its 13 Song Class submarines are extremely quiet and difficult to detect when running on electric motors.

Commodore Stephen Saunders, editor of Jane's Fighting Ships, and a former Royal Navy anti-submarine specialist, said the U.S. had paid relatively little attention to this form of warfare since the end of the Cold War.

He said: "It was certainly a wake-up call for the Americans.

"It would tie in with what we see the Chinese trying to do, which appears to be to deter the Americans from interfering or operating in their backyard, particularly in relation to Taiwan."

In January China carried a successful missile test, shooting down a satellite in orbit for the first time.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: chinesemilitary; chinesenavy; navair; submarine; usn; usskittyhawk
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1 posted on 11/09/2007 4:55:11 PM PST by fanfan
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To: magslinger

Oops.....


2 posted on 11/09/2007 4:55:49 PM PST by neodad (USS Vincennes (CG-49) Freedom's Fortress)
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To: Cindy

Ping


3 posted on 11/09/2007 4:56:20 PM PST by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: fanfan
Frack.
4 posted on 11/09/2007 4:56:35 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Illegal Immigration, a Clear and Present Danger.)
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To: fanfan

Oh my...


5 posted on 11/09/2007 4:57:42 PM PST by null and void (No more Bushes/No more Clintons)
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To: fanfan

Diesels are very difficult to detect in restricted waters. That said, doesn’t look good for the admiral.


6 posted on 11/09/2007 4:57:51 PM PST by neodad (USS Vincennes (CG-49) Freedom's Fortress)
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To: fanfan
Didn’t this already happen once already or something about a ChiCom sub following the Fleet?
7 posted on 11/09/2007 4:58:18 PM PST by BGHater (Lead. The MSG for the 21st Century.)
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To: fanfan
While this may very well be a big goof or failure on our part, I’d also have to think that it might be to our advantage to let them think we can’t detect their subs.
8 posted on 11/09/2007 5:00:00 PM PST by NMR Guy
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To: Vroomfondel; SC Swamp Fox; Fred Hayek; NY Attitude; P3_Acoustic; Bean Counter; investigateworld; ...
SONOBUOY PING!

I hate that! I hate it when that happens!

Click on pic for past Navair pings.

Post or FReepmail me if you wish to be enlisted in or discharged from the Navair Pinglist.
This is a medium to low volume pinglist.

9 posted on 11/09/2007 5:01:36 PM PST by magslinger (cranky right-winger)
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To: fanfan

Is this a new incident? I think it shows the folly of investing a lot of money in new surface fleets. I think the surface warship may be obsolete. But we HAVE to have something to fly the planes from right? Maybe it’s purely a missile world and we should just brandish hordes of them. Offensive and defensive.


10 posted on 11/09/2007 5:01:54 PM PST by ichabod1 ("Self defense is not only our right, it is our duty." President Ronald Reagan)
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To: fanfan

looks as though the clintons or some other traitor(s) has / have sold off more than missle technology, maybe....?


11 posted on 11/09/2007 5:02:26 PM PST by no-to-illegals (God Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform, Our Heroes. And Vote For Mr. Duncan Hunter, America! TLWNW)
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To: BGHater; ProudVet77
The article doesn’t say when it happened.
It may be last years story, regurgitated.

If that's the case, why republish it now?

Hmmm. Strange, eh?

12 posted on 11/09/2007 5:02:44 PM PST by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: fanfan

Sneaking up on us is a lot easier for the ChiComms now because they are using stolen US technology... well, except for the stuff Bill Clinton gave to them.


13 posted on 11/09/2007 5:02:50 PM PST by navyguy (Some days you are the pigeon, some days you are the statue.)
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To: fanfan

this is bad, but how is this a bad thing? Better they show up our defences in a mock drill as opposed to actual war.


14 posted on 11/09/2007 5:02:57 PM PST by steel_resolve (Think pitch forks.)
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To: fanfan; Doohickey; judicial meanz; submarinerswife; PogySailor; chasio649; gobucks; Bottom_Gun; ...
Single ping, low power, to the Steely-Eyed Killers of the Deep

Penetrating a CVBG is trivial for a submarine, really. With no more Perry class frigates or Spruance and Kidd class destroyers, who is the ASW platform? The Arleigh Burkes? Ha!

15 posted on 11/09/2007 5:03:10 PM PST by Doohickey (Giuliani: Brokeback Republican)
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To: BGHater

Looks like they’re rehashing an incident from October ’06.


16 posted on 11/09/2007 5:05:09 PM PST by dighton
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To: fanfan
Gives “testing the water” a whole new meaning - China wants to see if her new technology can get past ours - bad sign
17 posted on 11/09/2007 5:05:23 PM PST by maine-iac7 ("...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" LINCOLN)
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To: navyguy

Why do you thing the Clinton Chinese Mafia is so flush with Cash??

Pray for W and Our Victorious Troops


18 posted on 11/09/2007 5:06:23 PM PST by bray (Think "Betray U.S." Think Democrat)
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To: fanfan

GOOGLE EARTH SNAPS PIC OF NEW CHINESE SUB

http://www.theage.com.au/news/web/secret-subs-sighted/2007/10/12/1191696145980.html


19 posted on 11/09/2007 5:06:52 PM PST by Brad from Tennessee ("A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.")
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To: NMR Guy
Ahhh - sneaky = that would be a smart move - then we could track them when they think they’re safe and we can know what they’re too and when
20 posted on 11/09/2007 5:07:01 PM PST by maine-iac7 ("...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" LINCOLN)
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To: fanfan

Pay no attention to real subs today, our main enemy is one who think about developing weapons sometime in the future to attack us. Or so it is written.


21 posted on 11/09/2007 5:07:38 PM PST by ex-snook ("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
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To: Doohickey
Got agree with you on that one brother, we have no Surface ASW platforms right now. Maybe it was incidents like these that made Congress approve 400-15, the building of 2 Virginia Class boats a year. Someone has finally seen the light! But then here, I’m preaching to the Choir *L*.
22 posted on 11/09/2007 5:12:41 PM PST by Bottom_Gun (Crush depth dummy - proud NRA member & Certified Instructor)
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To: fanfan

Is this the same navy that wants to give the oceans to the UN?


23 posted on 11/09/2007 5:14:00 PM PST by timer (n/0=n=nx0)
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To: fanfan

Well, considering that the USN dismantled most of its ASW capabilities back in the early 1990s during the New World Order nonsense, I guess the admirals shouldn’t be too surprised...


24 posted on 11/09/2007 5:14:17 PM PST by Virginia Ridgerunner (“We must not forget that there is a war on and our troops are in the thick of it!” --Duncan Hunter)
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To: fanfan

A somewhat more dangerous sub:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Khaa3y0i87s

Chop Suey!


25 posted on 11/09/2007 5:15:31 PM PST by WesternCulture
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To: dighton
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/13/uchina113.xml

Yea, dunno if it’s a rehash or a new incident. I’m sure Gertz will cover it.

26 posted on 11/09/2007 5:15:41 PM PST by BGHater (Lead. The MSG for the 21st Century.)
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To: fanfan

didnt Clinton give away our quiet prop technology?


27 posted on 11/09/2007 5:17:28 PM PST by spanalot
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To: fanfan

If we detected their sub would we announce it?

Regards


28 posted on 11/09/2007 5:17:49 PM PST by ARE SOLE (Agents Ramos and Campean are in prison at this very moment.. (A "Concerned Citizen".))
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To: navyguy
Sneaking up on us is a lot easier for the ChiComms now because they are using stolen US technology... well, except for the stuff Bill Clinton gave to them.

What exactly did we give them that would apply in this case?

29 posted on 11/09/2007 5:18:03 PM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: fanfan

They just wanted to “play” too. It sent an interesting message but also tipped their hand, big time. Something fishy about that ... if we can believe any of this, I must add.


30 posted on 11/09/2007 5:18:28 PM PST by NonValueAdded (Fred Dalton Thompson for President)
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To: zot

Not good.


31 posted on 11/09/2007 5:19:03 PM PST by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: timer; All

Hi everyone

Apparently this may be last years story.

If the Chinese haven’t actually popped in on us for a year or so, we can relax.

There may be nothing to see here.
Move along.

;-D


32 posted on 11/09/2007 5:19:05 PM PST by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: fanfan
I went round & round on another thread about targeting aircraft carriers with incendiaries. That wouldn't be so difficult if you pop up right next to the target.

Top Scholar Predicts “Slow Motion Humanitarian Tragedy” in China


July 29, 1967 - The worst accident aboard a US Navy surface vessel since WWII.
USS Forrestal Naval Accident



33 posted on 11/09/2007 5:19:38 PM PST by Kevmo (We should withdraw from Iraq — via Tehran. And Duncan Hunter is just the man to get that job done.)
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To: ARE SOLE
If we detected their sub would we announce it?

Only if we wanted them to feel 'confident'.

34 posted on 11/09/2007 5:24:09 PM PST by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: NonValueAdded

That’s the problem in a nut shell.


35 posted on 11/09/2007 5:25:14 PM PST by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: fanfan

What puzzles me in all this is why the submarine surfaced. Having snuck undetected into the middle of the task group one would think that the surfacing would be the last thing it would do. You do not advertise your capabilities to your opponent. It could be that the sub didn’t realize just how close it was to the carrier.


36 posted on 11/09/2007 5:25:30 PM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Bender2

Ping.


37 posted on 11/09/2007 5:28:03 PM PST by TrueKnightGalahad (Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the Viking Kitties!)
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To: Kevmo

Wasn’t it a rocket from John McCain’s jet that started the “Forest Fire??


38 posted on 11/09/2007 5:28:13 PM PST by nvcdl
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To: nvcdl
Wasn’t it a rocket from John McCain’s jet that started the “Forest Fire??

No. It was a missile from another plane that hit his.

39 posted on 11/09/2007 5:32:09 PM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: spanalot
didnt Clinton give away our quiet prop technology?

Toshiba

40 posted on 11/09/2007 5:32:55 PM PST by null and void (No more Bushes/No more Clintons)
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To: spanalot
didnt Clinton give away our quiet prop technology? I believe it was Toshiba that did that. Bill sold off our ballistic missile guidance systems for his election campaign.
41 posted on 11/09/2007 5:33:38 PM PST by Nuc1 (NUC1 Sub pusher SSN 668 (Liberals Aren't Patriots))
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To: fanfan

Ok. They caught a big fish. Did they throw it back or bring it home?


42 posted on 11/09/2007 5:34:33 PM PST by CindyDawg
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To: CindyDawg

I don’t know.


43 posted on 11/09/2007 5:36:19 PM PST by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: no-to-illegals
looks as though the clintons or some other traitor(s) has / have sold off more than missle technology, maybe....?

At the very least they degraded security (so it wouldn't be demeaning to those without clearance), and allowed Chinese Nationals to work in our agencies and with our defense contractors on our military hardware and research.

Years back, probably near the end of the Clinton administration there was an article out that discussed the 'openness' in the fields, and suggested that the Chinese have so much access that they are researching ways to counter our classified technology before we've even deployed it. That's what likely happened here.

44 posted on 11/09/2007 5:38:32 PM PST by Kay Ludlow (Free market, but cautious about what I support with my dollars)
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To: fanfan
Image hosted by Photobucket.com makes no mention of the date... so either this is the second time this has happened, or this is recycled news.
45 posted on 11/09/2007 5:53:41 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist)
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To: fanfan

Holy crap!


46 posted on 11/09/2007 5:54:10 PM PST by thegreatbeast (The evil which you fear becomes a certainty by what you do.)
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To: fanfan
I understand the sub was found to be carrying a secret message, concealed in galley stores, of all places:

SOMETHING VERY EMBARRASSMENT WILL THIS WEEK HAPPEN TO YOU

47 posted on 11/09/2007 5:54:15 PM PST by BlazingArizona
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To: BGHater

“Looks like they’re rehashing an incident from October ’06.”

That, plus adjectives.

Diesel-electric subs are a challenge, no doubt. I think we ought to offer the ChiComs a duel: a CVBG against any two of their subs, with live warshots and existing bare-knuckles rules of engagement. That would be entertaining.

TC


48 posted on 11/09/2007 5:56:26 PM PST by Pentagon Leatherneck
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To: BlazingArizona

LOL!

Like posting a one year old story?


49 posted on 11/09/2007 5:56:32 PM PST by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: Chode
makes no mention of the date... so either this is the second time this has happened, or this is recycled news.

Exactly!

50 posted on 11/09/2007 5:57:39 PM PST by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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