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'Protect America violates Constitution' (More Ron Paul Lunacy)
presstv.ir ^

Posted on 02/16/2008 7:49:09 AM PST by no nau

Presidential hopeful Ron Paul opposes the extension of the Protect America Act of 2007 as the legislation violates the US Constitution.

"The misnamed Protect America Act allows the US government to monitor telephone calls and other electronic communications of American citizens without a warrant, which violates the Fourth Amendment," Paul said.

Speaking before the US House of Representatives on Wednesday, he said the Protect America Act sidelines the FISA Court system and places authority over foreign surveillance in the director of national intelligence and the attorney general with little if any oversight.

The 10-term congressman added that it does not provide for the Fourth Amendment protection of American citizens if they happen to be on the other end of an electronic communication where the subject of surveillance is a non-citizen overseas.

"We must remember that the original Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act was passed in 1978 as a result of the US Senate investigations into the federal government's illegal spying on American citizens," said Paul.

The libertarian-leaning Texan noted that the only legitimate 'upgrade' to the original FISA legislation would be to allow surveillance of conversations that begin and end outside the United States between non-US citizens where the telephone call is routed through the United States.

"Congress should not use this opportunity to chip away at even more of our constitutional protections and civil liberties. I urge my colleagues to oppose this and any legislation that violates the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution," Paul concluded.

Constitutionalist Ron Paul is an outspoken critic of current US fiscal and monetary policies. He advocates a full troop withdrawal from Iraq and the abolishment of income taxes.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism
KEYWORDS: 110th; fisa; paultards; ronpaul; surveillance
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Do we need any more proof that Ron Paul is unfit to be President or Congressman? Nobody is spying on American citizens. We are monitoring know dangerous foreign groups to prevent more terrorism and it is working.

Isn't there some kind of loony bin that Paul and his 911 twoofer supporters can be shipped off to?

1 posted on 02/16/2008 7:49:18 AM PST by no nau
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To: no nau

UHHH....KUMBAYA RONNIE...WITH AN EMPHASIS ON THE

BUB BY YAAAA

PART.....good god....


2 posted on 02/16/2008 7:51:27 AM PST by flat
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To: no nau

FISA is an unconsitutional restriction of the enmurated powers of the executive.

It’s a 70’s liberal construct.


3 posted on 02/16/2008 7:53:41 AM PST by Crim (Dont frak with the Zeitgeist....)
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To: no nau
Guess someone out to point out to this lunatic FISA is a law from 1978, not 1787. The US Constitution has nothing to do with the changes in the PAA.. All the Protect America Act does was update the 1978 law to relect the massive changes in communications technlogy since 1978.

What a clueless clown Ron Paul is on this issue.

4 posted on 02/16/2008 7:55:05 AM PST by MNJohnnie (http://www.iraqvetsforcongress.com ---- Get involved, make a difference.)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: no nau
Your lack of knowledge on current events is staggering.

Source:

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/12/fbi-recorded-27.html

At the end of 2006, the FBI's Telecommunications Intercept and Collection Technology Unit compiled an end-of-the-year report touting its accomplishments to management, a report that was recently unearthed via an open government request from the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Strikingly, the report said that the FBI's software for recording telephone surveillance of suspected spies and terrorists intercepted 27,728,675 sessions. Twenty-seven million is a staggering number given that the FBI only got 2,176 FISA court orders in 2006 from a secret spy court using the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

Source:

http://www.sptimes.com/2002/10/10/Worldandnation/Memo_details_string_o.shtml

FBI agents illegally videotaped suspects, intercepted e-mails without court permission and recorded the wrong phone conversations during sensitive terrorism and espionage investigations, according to an internal memorandum detailing serious lapses inside the FBI more than a year before the Sept. 11 attacks.

wake up.

6 posted on 02/16/2008 7:56:03 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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To: no nau
Your lack of knowledge on current events is staggering.

Source:

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/12/fbi-recorded-27.html

At the end of 2006, the FBI's Telecommunications Intercept and Collection Technology Unit compiled an end-of-the-year report touting its accomplishments to management, a report that was recently unearthed via an open government request from the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Strikingly, the report said that the FBI's software for recording telephone surveillance of suspected spies and terrorists intercepted 27,728,675 sessions. Twenty-seven million is a staggering number given that the FBI only got 2,176 FISA court orders in 2006 from a secret spy court using the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

Source:

http://www.sptimes.com/2002/10/10/Worldandnation/Memo_details_string_o.shtml

FBI agents illegally videotaped suspects, intercepted e-mails without court permission and recorded the wrong phone conversations during sensitive terrorism and espionage investigations, according to an internal memorandum detailing serious lapses inside the FBI more than a year before the Sept. 11 attacks.

wake up.

7 posted on 02/16/2008 7:56:31 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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To: no nau
Makes you wonder, why this guy is still in the race? He’s not garnering enough support to win the position of dog catcher.

Between the snake oil salesman, the loony tune Congressman and Old Mr.McSleazy, America really is in trouble!

8 posted on 02/16/2008 7:56:31 AM PST by alice_in_bubbaland (Wandering in the wasteland of GOP RINO's.)
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To: no nau

What is truly scary are the number of people in this country that think as Ron Paul does.


9 posted on 02/16/2008 7:57:31 AM PST by Dustbunny ((Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged. The Gipper)
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To: Dustbunny

What, worried about invasion of privacy? Strange our founders were the same way. What’s scary are the number of people in this country who think it’s ok. Sure, even if Bush is doing good with this, what’s to stop a Hillary or Obama administration from using this for other purposes? Do you all ever think of unintended consequences?


10 posted on 02/16/2008 7:59:36 AM PST by rb22982
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To: no nau
Nobody is spying on American citizens.

LOL. You haven't been paying attention at all.
11 posted on 02/16/2008 8:00:44 AM PST by hedgetrimmer (I'm a billionaire! Thanks WTO and the "free trade" system!--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

Oh, don’t worry, Ron Paul was never much of a threat to the continued trampling of the Constitution. I’m glad he is still around to raise the issue.

Just wait until these so-called “tools” are used against conservative “terrorists” who want to threaten the unity and hope and big plans of a future Democratic administration. Then FR will be up in arms about these oppressive laws, if FR isn’t shut down, that is.


12 posted on 02/16/2008 8:04:20 AM PST by oblomov (Molok Obama is so inspirational. He inspires me to offshore assets & buy as many guns as I can.)
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To: rb22982

>>Do you all ever think of unintended consequences?

Apparently many conservatives do not nowadays. It seems that ignoring unintended consequences, one of the many diseases of the left, has even become common among conservatives.


13 posted on 02/16/2008 8:07:27 AM PST by oblomov (Molok Obama is so inspirational. He inspires me to offshore assets & buy as many guns as I can.)
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To: oblomov

LOL! Hysterical BS.


14 posted on 02/16/2008 8:08:03 AM PST by alice_in_bubbaland (Wandering in the wasteland of GOP RINO's.)
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To: mad_as_he$$
Strikingly, the report said that the FBI's software for recording telephone surveillance of suspected spies and terrorists intercepted 27,728,675 sessions.

Of note is that the software at issue, the DCS-5000 gets information from carriers after they turn on surveillance on their switches once they get a court order (CALEA mandates the switches be wiretap-compliant). That means this number ostensibly has nothing to do with the government's secret warrantless wiretapping program, or the government's data-mining of billions of call records.

Your other link was about mistakes made in 2000, before current practices, before 911, and before the current Administration was even in power.

15 posted on 02/16/2008 8:08:41 AM PST by no nau
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

Really?

Perhaps you should revisit the IRS audits of Clinton Administration enemies, the Elian Gonzalez case, or the granddaddy of them all, Waco. Perhaps you should learn about COINTELPRO. The FBI/CIA infiltrated conservative as well as left-wing organizations.


16 posted on 02/16/2008 8:12:56 AM PST by oblomov (Molok Obama is so inspirational. He inspires me to offshore assets & buy as many guns as I can.)
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To: no nau

The Republicans will be more than happy to call on the Constitution if the Democrats are elected and opt to send their private all volunteer army [it will be their army then] to fight in Africa, Russia, China, South America or wherever without declaring war.


17 posted on 02/16/2008 8:13:55 AM PST by ex-snook ("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
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To: oblomov

Blind ignorance surrounds us.


18 posted on 02/16/2008 8:18:11 AM PST by FReepapalooza (Look away, look away, look away Dixieland)
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To: no nau

This man is speaking out for us just like Ron Paul:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpVdtwDSg9c


19 posted on 02/16/2008 8:24:45 AM PST by WildcatClan (The epitome of irony is that few entities exist, less common, than common-sense.)
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To: no nau

How dare they call this kook a Constitutionalist. He’s not.

Mr. Lincoln’s Secretary of War Mr. Stanton was correct when he observed that “..the Constitution of the United States is not nor shall it be a suicide pact.”


20 posted on 02/16/2008 8:40:27 AM PST by Emperor Palpatine ("There is no civility, only politics.")
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To: Emperor Palpatine

It’s ok Comrad, I assume you are OK with the police busting into your house as well just to check up on you whenever they want, since it’s for “national security.” I’m sure Clinton and other future crappy presidents will only use this for good and not for other federal disasters like Waco and Elian Gonzalez. /sigh it’s amazing how statist the Republican Party has turned in the last 8 years. When is the next Contract with America coming?


21 posted on 02/16/2008 8:43:11 AM PST by rb22982
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To: no nau

Just wait until Hillary has these powers.


22 posted on 02/16/2008 8:45:16 AM PST by B Knotts (Newt^H^H^H^HTancredo^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HFred^H^H^H^HRomney^H^H^H^H^H^HRon Paul '08)
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To: mad_as_he$$
Who's side are you on? Terrorists and their enablers/sympathizers should have no rights, period.



"Well I'm all broken up about their 'rights'!" -Inspector Harry Callahan
23 posted on 02/16/2008 8:48:11 AM PST by Emperor Palpatine ("There is no civility, only politics.")
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To: Dustbunny

Not to mention the Paul kooks here.


24 posted on 02/16/2008 8:48:51 AM PST by Emperor Palpatine ("There is no civility, only politics.")
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To: Emperor Palpatine

I guess you are ready to throw your rights away for them, huh?


25 posted on 02/16/2008 8:50:08 AM PST by FReepapalooza (Look away, look away, look away Dixieland)
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To: no nau; rb22982; Dustbunny; mad_as_he$$
This Fourth Amendment stuff seems to be getting in the way of a lot of things the Federal Government wants to do--why don't we just repeal it?

Come to think about it, if there is a problem with the Second Amendment preventing the government from prohibiting people from possessing fully assembled guns, we probably need to repeal that also.

And by the way, one of the essential purposes of the First Amendment was to permit citizens to expose and describe in print, the malfunctions of elected public officials--Supreme Court has held Congress has the power to eliminate that right also (McCain Feingold)--First Amendment is really excessive at this point, as long as we are cleaning up the Constitution, probably ought to get rid of that also.

Habeas Corpus you say? I don't fully understand why it is that the courts have approved getting rid of that for citizens but if the courts say it is ok and the federal government wants to do it, might as well get rid of that also.

Since 1935, and Jones & Laughlin Steel, we have gotten rid of the limitation on the power of Congress to do whatever it wants, so why do we need all this language in the Constitution limiting the power of Congress to act at all--lets get rid of that also.

I could go on. Maybe what we need is a Constitutional Convention.

26 posted on 02/16/2008 8:51:41 AM PST by David (...)
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To: no nau
Yes I deliberately used the earlier link to point out that it has been going on for sometime. There are many others including a Congressional investigation that is not getting much attention and W's automatic forgiveness last year of even more blatant FBI abuses. This was in response to the post that said Nobody is tapping Americans - clealry not true.

I do understand the S/W issues but when pressed the FBI will not say what the do with the "data of no interest". In wiretapping the FBI is out of control. Virtually every bit on electronic stuff that gets into the airwaves is now recorded. Good news bad news - they have about a 5 year backlog of stuff to listen too. Computer filtering it doing most of the work but there are still years of stuff a human needs to listen too.

BTW I do think there are 4th Amendment issues here but RP just goes over top in presentation. No this isn't just a W issue; JEH tapped the hell out of this country.

27 posted on 02/16/2008 8:52:48 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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To: rb22982

You show me anywhere in the Constitution where the word privacy is mentioned. I guarantee that you will not find it there.

The Founding Fathers were all good enough writers that had they intended for there to be a right to privacy they would have EXPRESSLY put it in there. Nothing needs to be implied or “found” by stretching the meaning or intent of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Of course this is how the Burger court found reason for “Roe”


28 posted on 02/16/2008 8:53:34 AM PST by Emperor Palpatine ("There is no civility, only politics.")
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To: Emperor Palpatine

I’m coming to your house at 2, wire tapping your phone and searching every knook and cranny in your house to see if you are aiding and abetting terrorism. I’ll also be monitoring your TV, what food you take in and what you search on the internet (including that “right wing extremist” website, Free Republic). If you will not let me, you are an enabler and a sympathizer and should have no rights, period.


29 posted on 02/16/2008 8:55:21 AM PST by rb22982
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To: rb22982

I make no overseas calls to Mideast nations.

Would you rather a suitcase nuke go off in your city?

I sure wouldn’t. Oh, please don’t respond with that tired Franklin quote. Ben didn’t have to contend with savages like the Islamists.


30 posted on 02/16/2008 8:56:15 AM PST by Emperor Palpatine ("There is no civility, only politics.")
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To: Emperor Palpatine
Fourth Amendment - Search and Seizure

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

If that isn't the definition of privacy when dealing with government, I'm not sure what is.

31 posted on 02/16/2008 8:56:58 AM PST by rb22982
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To: rb22982

Stopping jihadists is not unreasonable.

I have nothing to hide anyway. If they want to listen in on me ordering pizza from Vocelli’s, then they can be my guest.


32 posted on 02/16/2008 8:58:33 AM PST by Emperor Palpatine ("There is no civility, only politics.")
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To: Emperor Palpatine
Would you rather a suitcase nuke go off in your city?

We don't even have secure borders and you think wiretapping normal American's is OK. LOL. Build the wall, enforce illegal immigration laws first, have very, very tough background checks on all legal immigrants to the US and THEN let's talk about this. Until that's done, the suitcase nuke can go off anyway.

33 posted on 02/16/2008 8:59:46 AM PST by rb22982
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To: Emperor Palpatine

Such a model statist. You are no conservative.


34 posted on 02/16/2008 9:00:18 AM PST by rb22982
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To: Emperor Palpatine
Who's side are you on? Terrorists and their enablers/sympathizers should have no rights, period.

Perhaps not, but certainly American citizens should have rights. Maybe these laws aren't being used to violate the rights of Americans now, but history shows that governments have a tendency to stretch, abuse, and misuse the powers they are given. What is used today to protect us from terroristic threats could very easily be used against us 10 or 20 years down the road. This is especially true when the government has little oversight or accountability.

Giving law enforcement these powers now will probably make us safer in many ways. But you have to admit that there is a significant long term risk involved. I don't think it's fair to question the allegiance of people who recognize this risk and are bothered by it.

35 posted on 02/16/2008 9:00:40 AM PST by timm22 (Think critically)
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To: rb22982
What, worried about invasion of privacy? Strange our founders were the same way. What’s scary are the number of people in this country who think it’s ok. Sure, even if Bush is doing good with this, what’s to stop a Hillary or Obama administration from using this for other purposes? Do you all ever think of unintended consequences?

It hurts their brain to ever think that far ahead.

36 posted on 02/16/2008 9:03:00 AM PST by cva66snipe (Proud Partisan Constitution Supporting Conservative to which I make no apologies for nor back down)
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To: no nau
If you are talking to a cave in Afghanistan or Pakistan (or almost any other "stan") you need watching!
37 posted on 02/16/2008 9:03:20 AM PST by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" TERM LIMITS, NOW!)
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To: rb22982

Its not American citizens that are being eavesdropped on.


38 posted on 02/16/2008 9:05:46 AM PST by Emperor Palpatine ("There is no civility, only politics.")
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; George W. Bush; Revelation 911; NapkinUser; DreamsofPolycarp; The_Eaglet; ...

Can't wait to see how YObama-bama uses these wonderful 'protect' America powers.

Let freedom Ping.

39 posted on 02/16/2008 9:08:34 AM PST by CJ Wolf (To Join or leave the offical Ron Paul 'let freedom' Ping, Freepmail me.)
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To: Emperor Palpatine
Its not American citizens that are being eavesdropped on.

You can live in that fantasy world if you want. Even if it were true, it won't hold any water under a Democratic president.

40 posted on 02/16/2008 9:09:15 AM PST by rb22982
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To: David
Our founding fathers are gravely disappointed in what we have done with our inheritance.
41 posted on 02/16/2008 9:20:36 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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To: mad_as_he$$
You can't be serious. To have posted that without the information that the PAA covers foreign calls TO OTHER foreign numbers that route through the US.

Foreign citizens in foreign nations have NEVER been subject to Constitutional protectections EVER by ANY decision of ANY court until after 9/11.

None of the intercepts originated in or ended on US territory. They were foreign in origin and foreign in destination, they were merely routing THROUGH the US. The Dems decided to hobble the US by encouraging the lawsuit that spuriously argued that communications that PASSED THROUGH the US were covered by the Constitution, which demanded that the intercepts which UNIVERSALLY were NEVER previously subject to review (since the Constitution does not cover a French Citizen in Belgium Calling A Turkish Citizen in Brazil SINCE THEY ARE HEY NOT AMERICAN CITIZENS OR EVEN IN FRIGGIN' AMERICAN TERRITORY) .

Talking about the intercepts being compared to the original FISA specs (FOREIGN NATIONAL CALLING INTO AMERICA OR TO AN AMERICAN CITIZEN) is absurd at best, but is simply irresponsible and deliberately misleading.

So your point is refuted, eliminated, and shown to be not only untrue, but deliberately misleading and false. In simpler words, your arguement is a lie of the highest order.

42 posted on 02/16/2008 9:21:05 AM PST by Republicanus_Tyrannus
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To: rb22982
I do hope someone takes names of all who have no matter what backed Bush’s abuses of the Constitution in the name of the WOT. Watch and listen for them to squeal like pigs when the DEMs use those powers. They will all of the sudden get Constitution Religion. Not because they actually support or believe in the Constitution but rather because to them it’s all about Dems vs GOP and they don’t even bother to understand what is Constitutional and what isn’t. Their minds will change when a Dem is in the Oval Office. It's OK in their mind if it's THEIR Party that subverts the Constitution.
43 posted on 02/16/2008 9:21:33 AM PST by cva66snipe (Proud Partisan Constitution Supporting Conservative to which I make no apologies for nor back down)
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To: no nau

What’s that stench? Is it boiled frog?

What happens when these slowly creeping powers of the Federal government start to encroach on US? By a Democratic President?

Then, the wailing and gnashing of teeth shall begin.

Since it’s “our guy”, it’s okay!

The scary thing is that unlike a war against a well defined nation state, this War has the stench of the War of Drugs or the War on Poverty on it.

When will these powers ever expire? There is always the ‘threat’ of terrorism. There’s probably millions of Islamist Extremists all over the globe. The threat probably won’t end in our lifetime.

This should make conservatives very nervous. Especially with a new administration only months away.


44 posted on 02/16/2008 9:22:51 AM PST by rom (Real Conservatives don't vote for Socialists with an (R) next to their name.)
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To: mad_as_he$$

Read Shadow Warriors you’ll never trust the FBI again. When I read the history of the FBI and the Biography’s of J Edgar Hoover it’s hard to believe that anyone ever trusted them in the first place.


45 posted on 02/16/2008 9:23:08 AM PST by kublia khan (Absolute war brings total victory)
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To: cva66snipe
It's OK in their mind if it's THEIR Party that subverts the Constitution.

Unfortunately you are correct. I'll probably be voting for the Constitution Party this year since our choices are liberal McCain, liberal Clinton or liberal Obama.

46 posted on 02/16/2008 9:24:27 AM PST by rb22982
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To: Republicanus_Tyrannus

Thanks for that.


47 posted on 02/16/2008 9:25:48 AM PST by Emperor Palpatine ("There is no civility, only politics.")
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

“Makes you wonder, why this guy is still in the race? He’s not garnering enough support to win the position of dog catcher.”

What makes me wonder even more is why you anti-Paul posters go on and on and on about the guy even though, as you correctly note, he hasn’t enough support to win the position of dog catcher.


48 posted on 02/16/2008 9:26:18 AM PST by Robwin
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To: Emperor Palpatine
You are right but I am worried about the rights of US citizens and thier ability to conduct their affairs (legal) in private. these days I can guarantee you that you commit at least four felonies a day and do not even know it. if you let me in your house I can find enough evidence to convict you of at least three felonies. If you live in Kalofornia if is five.

Guys like do not understand that they can haul you away and they do not even have to tell your lawyer or your family where you are or if they even have you. There are 5-7 such cases right now. Habeas Corpus is gone.

Oh and exactly how many cases have been initiated and stopped terrorist actions because of wiretapping. Exactly NONE! Fort Dix was an informant and so and so on.

Besides as long as the border is open this is all just mental masturbation.

49 posted on 02/16/2008 9:28:34 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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To: Emperor Palpatine; rb22982
EP you have more to fear from your Government than you do from the terrorists. The actual chances of being a victim of terrorism is five time less than being in a crash of a commercial airliner.
50 posted on 02/16/2008 9:30:57 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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