"I see little people. Talking to me. Like they make a difference.
They only see what they want to see.
They don't know they're little."
Posted on 02/28/2008 3:40:11 AM PST by SkyPilot
WASHINGTON: The question has nagged at the parents of Americans born outside the continental United States for generations: Dare their children aspire to grow up and become president? In the case of Senator John McCain of Arizona, the issue is becoming more than a matter of parental daydreaming.
McCain's likely nomination as the Republican candidate for president and the happenstance of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936 are reviving a musty debate that has surfaced periodically since the founders first set quill to parchment and declared that only a "natural-born citizen" can hold the nation's highest office.
(Excerpt) Read more at iht.com ...
I found this at the U.S. Dept of State website.
Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship By a Child Born Abroad
Birth Abroad to Two U.S. Citizen Parents in Wedlock: A child born abroad to two U.S. citizen parents acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under section 301(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). One of the parents MUST have resided in the U.S. prior to the child’s birth. No specific period of time for such prior residence is required.
Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child’s birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.
I don’t know what BHO’s status is, but it would be worth looking into if I were Hitlery.
"I see little people. Talking to me. Like they make a difference.
They only see what they want to see.
They don't know they're little."
1403 is irrelevant since 1401 is applicable.
born to us citizens is natural-born.
Inapplicable, Obama was not born abroad.
Thanks, I didn’t know where he was born, I just knew his daddy was a muzzie and he lived in Indonesia for a while.
The Republican establishment will be confronted with the cold fact that if the party nominates McCain, all efforts to win the presidency will be in vain. They will be forced to “broker” the leftist McCain into oblivion where he rightfully belongs.
Can an act of congress change the constitution.
There are a lot of people who'd disagree with number 6.
Where McCain was born there was a US flag with no other flags flying. Sure, all this changed later but this was the case at the time. There's acreage that was in Texas a few decades ago that's now part of Mexico; same with parts of Alaska that went to Russia. How can someone born in those places suddenly cease to be a "natural born citizen" because of later jurisdictional changes?
At this moment lawyers everywhere are salivating...
Yes, the law can say whatever it wants, constitutional or not, until the Supreme Court says otherwise, and in this case the Constitution is not explicit and the law has not been overruled.
Yes, the law can say whatever it wants, constitutional or not, until the Supreme Court says otherwise, and in this case the Constitution is not explicit and the law has not been overruled.
But the chain of logic broke at #3, so #6 doesn’t matter.
Neat!
--one way or the other we're getting a dual citizen president. McCain/Panama, Oboma/Kenya, Clinton/LaLaLand.
I never made a statement as to the claim for or against mccain, the above is the operating clause of the treaty for the property?? Seems to me no more than a rental contract. See http://www.heritage.org/Research/LatinAmerica/bg-31.cfm
Just the opposite, the Constitution was written to allow foreign born men who were citizens of the United States when the Constitution was adopted to become President.
Keep in mind what the Presidential citizenship clause was all about. The English Civil War was the template through which the founders viewed many of their actions. They were especially worried about three bad things that happened in the English Civil War, when Charles I was overthrown by Parliament:
1. The successful rebel general, Cromwell, became dictator. George Washington solved that worry by returning his commission to the Continental Congress, and disbanding the Army.
2. The common people largely over through established society. That happened in some states, and the Constitution was crafted to keep the Senate (elected by State Legislatures) and the President (elected by electors, not popular vote) insulated from popular clamor.
3. The Monarchy returned, and executed or imprisoned many of the Parliamentary leaders. That was the big worry. The men writing the Constitution were afraid that George III would send one of his younger sons to America. That Prince would form a political movement, get himself elected President, and return the country to the British Crown.
In retrospect, that seems a foolish fear. George III didn't have any son with the leadership potential, and popular touch, to remotely pull off such a feat, even if Americans were open to such a thing. But to the founders, mindful of how Charles II had had Parliamentary leaders, who signed his father's death warrant, hung, drawn and quartered as traitors, it was a big worry.
Seen in that light, the restriction of the Presidency to "natural born" citizens was not meant to exclude a child born to American parents, in an American possession. It would be like excluding Albert Gore Jr., for being born in the District of Columbia, which is not a State. (And yes, I knew he was just raised there, but you get the point.)
There's a lot of immigration officials who'll disagree on that point. I know a lot of people born to US citizen parents who're having all sorts of problems just entering the US, that's not even becoming naturalized, that's not even being considered "natural-born".
McCain is a natural-born citizen under 8 USC 1401. 8 USC 1403 clarifies the matter for those born in the Canal Zone whose citizenship is a bit murkier. Notice, however, that it says that even those citizens are “declared” citizens, not that they “naturalized,” “hereby declared,” or “shall be” citizens, or that they are citizens as of any particular date. Contrast this with 8 USC 1402:
“All persons born in Puerto Rico on or after April 11, 1899, and prior to January 13, 1941, subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, residing on January 13, 1941, in Puerto Rico or other territory over which the United States exercises rights of sovereignty and not citizens of the United States under any other Act, are declared to be citizens of the United States as of January 13, 1941.”
Notice how there is a date given at which they are granted citizenship: January 13, 1941. The absence of a date at which Zonians are granted citizenship suggests that they were not thereby declared citizens, but are merely declared citizens by recognition of other means.
HOWEVER: This is all irrelevant, since there does exist a third alternative between naturalization and being natural-born. The people of Puerto Rico, born between 3-2-1917, when Puerto Ricans were made citizens by collective naturalization, and 1-13-1941 are neither naturalized nor natural-born (”jure solis”), but are U.S. citizens under “jure sanguinis” (law of blood).
What is relevant is section 1401.
I'm sure Cheney complied with the law. But..., it was a paper fix to a real problem. Both he and Bush had lived in Texas for years.
>> born to us citizens is natural-born. <<
No. Its “jure sanguinis.” Natural born is “jure solis.” People born in America but living oversees are Americans or not based on their actions: If they renounced their citizenship, the fact that they were born in America is meaningless to their status as to whether they are Americans. Thus, it is only because the parents have not renounced citizenship that the children are Americans; they are Americans through their blood-relationship to Americans. In contrast, those born in America are Americans because it is the country of their own birth; it is “natural” that they are Americans, not through legal recognition of their parents’ status.
Fortunately, for McCain, 8 USC 1403 recognizes Zonians as Americans by birth (although that is subject to interpretation since it does not use the term “naturalized,” “natural,” “jure solis,” “jure sanguinis,” or any other term which would clarify by which means Zonians are Americans).
Only in this era of reality TV and Paris Hilton could we get to the point that a child born on American soil to parents serving at high rank in the American military could have his citizenship questioned, while every illegal alien can sneak into the country, break a bunch of laws, and have citizenship given to them.
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