Posted on 03/12/2008 8:59:01 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty
Microsoft pays low wages to programmers? Where do you get that from?
We need to attract the best and brightest of the world to come here and SETTLE here
Sorry to interject actual facts into this discussion...
It certainly has had that effect - just not in the USA.
I guess Americans can eat cake, right Bill?
Perhaps you can explain why, in a country of 320 million where the laws of supply & demand supposedly still apply, Bill Gates cannot find enough American workers to fill these ‘well-paying jobs’?
Perhaps you should re-read the thread.
For speeding and not having an ID on him when stopped...
IBM has a program to become more efficient called LEAN. Some people say it stands for “Lay Off Every American Now”.
I totally agree with such a policy. H1B program needs a major overhaul. As an international student who got a Bachelors degree and now pursuing a Masters degree at a top American university, I am worried about my job prospects after graduation. I would certainly love to get the experience of working in a American company before going back to my homeland. My roommate graduated this semester with a PhD in Biomedical Engg after 6yrs of good quality research that produced atleast 2 patents. This is from an American university that is ranked in top 10 for this area. But he is finding it difficult to get a job in the industry because of screwed up H1 policy. Companies don’t want to touch him because of uncertain H1 scenario. He is now contemplating job prospects in Canada, Australia and India.
H1B program needs major changes. US should not lose such skilled people who have PhD degrees and have spent years on research in American labs and contributed to advancement in science in this country.
“So... usually company’s caught in this dilemma pack up and move.”
I guess that’s the only solution if you want a guarantee of the lowest priced labor on the world market.
Of course, if instead you bring the foreign workers in here on visas, it solves nothing, because no one wants to bust their butt in engineering school for the promise of getting laid off and replaced by an H1-B holder (and yes, I’ve seen this happen numerous times).
Gates thinks everyone is too stupid to figure this out, so he keeps preaching to Congress to expand H1-Bs, then complains when no US citizens want to go to engineering school anymore.
The visa holders ruin the job market for everyone else.
Engineering is moving target. As I wrote in my first post... cranking code ain’t the skill it once was, thus the reduction in salaries.
“Engineering is moving target. As I wrote in my first post... cranking code ain’t the skill it once was, thus the reduction in salaries.”
That makes exactly zero sense versus the “not enough talent” claim. Either there is too much talent, and salaries fall, OR there is too little talent, and salaries rise. Since industry continues to complain that there is TOO LITTLE TALENT, salaries should most certainly be on the rise.
However, they’re not, and not coincidentally the crying for more H1Bs continues.
I’m not “protectionist” per se, but there has to be a solution that allows critical industries to flourish on American soil, with American workers. This trend to outsourcing and hiring H1B workers has damaged America, while making potential adversaries (both economic and military) much stronger.
Clearly there IS enough talent... and it is overseas and cheaper. Is Microsoft really a “critical industry” that should somehow be protected from foreign competition? Why?
‘Clearly there IS enough talent... and it is overseas and cheaper. Is Microsoft really a “critical industry” that should somehow be protected from foreign competition? Why?’
Microsoft shouldn’t be protected from foreign competition. Science and engineering workers should be protected from foreign competition to the extent that there’s a level playing field. We have bootstrapped giant IT industries in India and elsewhere. The net result of that will be increased competition for US companies like Microsoft. Even more dangerous is the possibility of strategic military or scientific breakthroughs by the adversaries we’ve enriched, China for instance.
Penny wise, pound foolish.
And auto workers... and farm workers... and steel workers... etc, etc, etc. So many rice bowls, so little money.
“And auto workers... and farm workers... and steel workers... etc, etc, etc. So many rice bowls, so little money.”
There are significant differences. None of those were college educated professionals, and none represent technologies of strategic importance. Though, we may still rue the day we moved all the steel foundries offshore.
I was directly affected by this trend, and have also seen the pervasive ageism in the software industry. Again, there is not a lack of qualified people, there is simply a perception (in most cases wrong) that a younger, cheaper worker is “just as good”. When there aren’t enough young, cheap Americans to fill the bill, I guess it’s time to import some foreign equivalents, eh?
I still anticipate the outsourcing of CEO jobs with breathless anticipation. Surely they are the most replaceable, overrated, and overpaid ‘workers’ out there.
Hey, I’m an aging worker too who was also trained in science and technology. I wouldn’t want to assume my field is of “strategic importance” but I do feel your pain (for what that’s worth).
“Hey, I’m an aging worker too who was also trained in science and technology. I wouldn’t want to assume my field is of “strategic importance” but I do feel your pain (for what that’s worth).”
All of science and engineering (including computer science) is of strategic importance. Just one discovery or innovation can make the difference between victory and defeat (again, economically OR militarily).
What makes these H1B visa programs especially bad are economic downturns. There had been quite an expansion of the program under Clinton prior to the 2000 ‘.com bubble’ bursting. Even with high unemployment among American computer professionals, nothing was done to reduce the number of foreign workers coming in. It was reprehensible in the extreme.
Now we have Bill crying for more foreign computer professionals, just as the economy looks to be going south again...exactly the way to encourage young Americans to go into technology fields. Not.
H1B visa - Hey, at least we know who and where these people are. ;-)
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