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Standoff emerges at polygamist retreat
Yahoo ^

Posted on 04/05/2008 6:01:28 PM PDT by Sub-Driver

Standoff emerges at polygamist retreat

8 minutes ago

Ambulances are being sent to a polygamist compound in West Texas as authorities prepare "for the worst" in a conflict with members of the compound.

Prosecutor Allison Palmer says sect leaders Saturday refused to let authorities search a temple for a 16-year-old member who reported being physically abused.

Palmer tells the San Angelo Standard-Times that medical workers are being sent "in case this were to a go in a way that no one wants."

She says that law enforcers are "preparing for the worst."

A search warrant authorized troopers to enter the retreat run by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They are looking for evidence of a marriage between the girl and a 50-year-old man.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Other non-Christian
KEYWORDS: flds; jeffs; mormon; polygamy
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Uh oh. Time to send in Janet Reno?
1 posted on 04/05/2008 6:01:28 PM PDT by Sub-Driver
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To: Sub-Driver

Heck we should send her to Basra while we’re at it.


2 posted on 04/05/2008 6:03:38 PM PDT by mainepatsfan
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To: Sub-Driver

Yeah. And the tanks. And the tear gas.


3 posted on 04/05/2008 6:03:41 PM PDT by Ole Okie
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To: Sub-Driver

I said the other day this was going to be Mount Carmel Revisited.


4 posted on 04/05/2008 6:04:43 PM PDT by mtbopfuyn (The fence is "absolutely not the answer" - Gov. Rick Perry (R, TX))
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To: Sub-Driver

“Uh oh. Time to send in Janet Reno?”

Nah, we should just leave all those underage girls there to marry 50-year-old men and bear their children.


5 posted on 04/05/2008 6:08:27 PM PDT by gracesdad
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To: mtbopfuyn; metmom; yorkie; 50mm

I was thinking the same last night after I read about them removing children.


6 posted on 04/05/2008 6:10:38 PM PDT by pandoraou812 (Out, damned spot......OUT)
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To: Sub-Driver

Isn’t Mit Romney one of them?


7 posted on 04/05/2008 6:14:04 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: gracesdad

Age of consent in TX is 17. Unless the group is systematically breaking that law, leave them alone.


8 posted on 04/05/2008 6:15:36 PM PDT by buck jarret
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To: Sub-Driver

Waco: The Sequel?


9 posted on 04/05/2008 6:17:13 PM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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To: buck jarret

“...for a 16-year-old member who reported being physically abused.”


10 posted on 04/05/2008 6:18:00 PM PDT by 21twelve (Don't wish for peace. Pray for Victory.)
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To: gracesdad
And have teenage boys kicked to the curb for inane infractions, in order to get rid of competition for the girls "because God said so".
11 posted on 04/05/2008 6:18:19 PM PDT by El Conservador ("Liberalism is the application of childish emotion to complex issues." - MrB)
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To: buck jarret

They’re “systematically breaking the law” against polygamy. Do your research, and have a heart for these girl slaves who must obey their masters and “marry” dirty old men.


12 posted on 04/05/2008 6:21:16 PM PDT by rightazrain (Stop Obama/Clinton!)
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To: El Conservador
One of the main difficulties that Lost Boys face is that they are raised not to trust the outside world. In fact, leaving their communities is considered a sin worse than murder.

So being kicked out is just fine. IOW, the elder males are condemning the boys to hell for the crime of being young competition.

Nice religion.

13 posted on 04/05/2008 6:21:17 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: 21twelve

Someone reported physical abuse and they go hunting an illegal marriage. They are clearly looking for an excuse.

Often physical abuse means whatever the authorities want it to mean.


14 posted on 04/05/2008 6:22:00 PM PDT by buck jarret
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To: buck jarret

Ewww. Sick that someone would defend abusers of women and girls.


15 posted on 04/05/2008 6:22:06 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: buck jarret

“Age of consent in TX is 17. Unless the group is systematically breaking that law, leave them alone.”

So you approve of polygamy? And breaking th law?


16 posted on 04/05/2008 6:22:28 PM PDT by gracesdad
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To: rightazrain
They’re “systematically breaking the law” against polygamy.

Isn't that a violation of the First Amendment guarantees of freedom of religion?

L

17 posted on 04/05/2008 6:22:50 PM PDT by Lurker (Pimping my blog: http://lurkerslair-lurker.blogspot.com/)
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To: gracesdad
Nah, we should just leave all those underage girls there to marry 50-year-old men and bear their children.

Not to fan any flames here, but I wonder how these cases will be handled in the future with Islam?

18 posted on 04/05/2008 6:24:18 PM PDT by BerryDingle (I know how to deal with communists, I still wear their scars on my back from Hollywood-Ronald Reagon)
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To: rightazrain

I don’t really understand the polygamy laws. Living with two or more persons is not illegal. One can only be legally married to one person at a time. If you say you are married to two or more people, you are in fact only legally married to one of them. And yet making that legally impossible claim is illegal even though the second marriage is fictional.


19 posted on 04/05/2008 6:25:08 PM PDT by buck jarret
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To: Cacique

“Isn’t Mit Romney one of them?”

Don’t you just wish that sometimes you kept your mouth shut?
Think twice...speak once. Idiotic statement on your part.


20 posted on 04/05/2008 6:25:54 PM PDT by panaxanax (Writing in Duncan Hunter 2008!)
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To: BerryDingle

“Not to fan any flames here, but I wonder how these cases will be handled in the future with Islam?”

Hard to say. Quite a few LDSers (including the group in this story) have been allowed to get away with it for years and years, which I’ve never understood.


21 posted on 04/05/2008 6:28:19 PM PDT by gracesdad
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To: Sub-Driver

Obama’s idea of marriage(s):

Homosexual “marriage” is just the first step.

Next will come legalized polygamy.

Obama’s daddy would be proud.


22 posted on 04/05/2008 6:28:59 PM PDT by Mrs.Z ("...you're a Democrat. You're expected to complain and offer no solutions." Denny Crane)
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To: Sub-Driver

Let’s pray that cooler heads prevail. We don’t need another Branch Davidian fiasco.


23 posted on 04/05/2008 6:30:10 PM PDT by matt1234
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To: metmom

I think it’s dangerous that the government should be empowered to shut down an entire community because it disapproves of them. They should remove all the minors they have real evidence on; they shouldn’t be able to cart hundreds of people away just like that.


24 posted on 04/05/2008 6:31:40 PM PDT by buck jarret
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To: metmom

“Nice religion.”

metmom, you know I love you. The Mormon Church does represent a “nice religion”. The Jeff’s people are wackos and NOT affiliated with the LDS.


25 posted on 04/05/2008 6:34:35 PM PDT by panaxanax (Writing in Duncan Hunter 2008!)
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To: buck jarret

You really haven’t a clue about what goes on in these polygamist “communities,” do you? These places are sick, sick, sick.


26 posted on 04/05/2008 6:35:05 PM PDT by gracesdad
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To: buck jarret

I think your on the wrong forum.


27 posted on 04/05/2008 6:36:18 PM PDT by fatima
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To: Cacique
Isn’t Mit Romney one of them?

Yes he is!
He and his nine wives are shouting for justice right now on CNN.

28 posted on 04/05/2008 6:37:30 PM PDT by humblegunner ()
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To: metmom

The vast majority of Mormons have no use for the polygamists.


29 posted on 04/05/2008 6:37:51 PM PDT by gracesdad
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To: Sub-Driver

And it happens in April of all months.


30 posted on 04/05/2008 6:40:17 PM PDT by LukeL (Yasser Arafat: "I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize")
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To: All

The girl in question turned 16 in Jan. She has an eight month old baby. Her “husband” is a 50 year old man....DON’T MESS WITH TEXAS!


31 posted on 04/05/2008 6:42:47 PM PDT by Jrabbit
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To: panaxanax
The Jeff’s people are wackos and NOT affiliated with the LDS.

Yeah. Never heard of them.

Meisner said welfare officials were looking for foster homes for the girls, most of whom have rarely been outside the insular world of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

The who? Latter Day Who? Is that the Mormons?

32 posted on 04/05/2008 6:42:57 PM PDT by humblegunner ()
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To: buck jarret
They should remove all the minors they have real evidence on; they shouldn’t be able to cart hundreds of people away just like that.

Maybe they have evidence on all those people. Or do you want them to skip out so that they are not to be found when the evidence is in?

Besides, how are they going to get evidence if they don't collect it right away? Do you want them to politely ask for it so they can destroy it?

And it's not just a matter of *approving* of. It's a matter of breaking the law. The government has the authority to enforce the law.

33 posted on 04/05/2008 6:45:54 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: gracesdad

That was from the link to wiki in post 11.

I guess my comment wasn’t clear enough. If you read the link, you’ll see what I mean.


35 posted on 04/05/2008 6:51:13 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
metmom, NO! You can't believe that rounding up everyone and sorting out who's guilty and who's not is Constitutionally right. I thought we, as American citizens were innocent until proven guilty?

If, and I believe it is so, underage girls are being forced into “marriage”, then the authorities have to gather the facts before they start banging heads and arresting people. This is how Waco started. C’mon metmom, you're one of my favorite FReepers.

36 posted on 04/05/2008 6:52:13 PM PDT by panaxanax (Writing in Duncan Hunter 2008!)
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To: panaxanax; gracesdad; buck jarret
That's a great idea, lets get someone like Reno to go in and kill more than they wished to save

Psst...Don't tell McCain..

Ah..what sir?

Told ya!

MORE BOOTS ON THE GROUND!!!

Yes Sir!

37 posted on 04/05/2008 6:52:25 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay
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To: matt1234
No we don't. They reported all the one's removed were ok so let's be patient and not burn the place up.
38 posted on 04/05/2008 6:53:40 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: panaxanax
Maybe the government should seize every Catholic Church and save the poor Alter Boys that are getting their butts reamed by the pedophile priests.

Yeah, sure, like that's a facet of the religion (sarcasm)

39 posted on 04/05/2008 6:54:39 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: gracesdad
This is Warren Jeffs followers known as the FDLS. They are not the LDS. Warren Jeffs was the leader of this group.

Jeffs, who was considered to be the sect's prophet, was arrested near Las Vegas in 2006 and sentenced to life in jail for being an accomplice to rape. He also faces federal charges in Arizona and Utah.

40 posted on 04/05/2008 6:55:08 PM PDT by pandoraou812 (Out, damned spot......OUT)
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To: Lurker
Did you just go first amendment on polygamy? How do you feel about human sacrifice? Child rape? Where do you draw the line?
41 posted on 04/05/2008 6:59:59 PM PDT by snodog
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To: buck jarret

There is no age threshold at which rape becomes legal. Consent is not a meaningful term in these communities, where girls grow up with no contact at all with the outside world, and no exposure to the idea that maybe God doesn’t want you to follow your the orders of your “prophet” when he orders you to submit to being raped by the middle aged man he picked out for you. The way it works is the girls are taught that the outside world is a horrible, sinful place, and any acceptance of its ways, or any failure to obey the orders of your prophet or your assigned husband will consign you to hell. Then you get raped and impregnated by the time you’re 13 or 14, and by the time things are bad enough that you start questioning whether you really believe all this crap, you have a baby or two, no clue of how you might support yourself much less your children in the scary sinful outside world. You think about making a run for it, but realize you’d have to abandon your children — you physically have no chance of escaping with them (even escaping by yourself is an iffy proposition). So you stay. What’s that you were saying about consent?


42 posted on 04/05/2008 7:00:34 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: buck jarret

Called being a bigamist.....the act of entering into a marriage with one person while still legally married to another. However these people don’t look at it as that. They marry as many wives as they can & most are supported by welfare.


43 posted on 04/05/2008 7:01:15 PM PDT by pandoraou812 (Out, damned spot......OUT)
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To: Boagenes
Waco: The Sequel?

That's what I fear. I am praying it is not the case.

44 posted on 04/05/2008 7:01:29 PM PDT by NYCynic
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To: Cacique; rightazrain; panaxanax
The congregation, known as FLDS, and has been led by Jeffs since his father's death in 2002. It is one of several groups that split from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, based in Salt Lake City, decades after it renounced polygamy in 1890.

Perfect "political" timing should Romney be considered for a VP slot?

"The investigation began with a call alleging physical abuse of a 16-year-old girl living there-so far not found."

Jeffs was sentenced to two consecutive sentences of five years to life in prison in Utah for being an accomplice to the rape of a 14-year-old girl who wed her cousin in an arranged marriage in 2001.

In Arizona, Jeffs is charged as an accomplice with four counts each of incest and sexual conduct with a minor stemming from two arranged marriages between teenage girls and their older male relatives. He is jailed in Kingman, Ariz., awaiting trial.


45 posted on 04/05/2008 7:04:54 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay
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To: buck jarret; gracesdad; Lurker

The government has no business interfering with polygamy or polyandry practiced by consenting adults. That’s a matter of basic freedom, and to some people, of religious belief. However, what goes on in these fundamentalist Mormon cults has nothing to do with adults freely choosing to live in polygamous or polyandrous relationships. It has everything to do with adult men using religion as an excuse for raping adolescent girls. Let’s not confuse the two issues just because the sicko rapist men of this “church” say we should.


46 posted on 04/05/2008 7:08:16 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: LukeL
And it happens in April of all months.

Very eerie.

47 posted on 04/05/2008 7:09:24 PM PDT by NYCynic
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To: Sub-Driver
Hopefully they will show a little restraint with the gas, the tanks, the explosives, and the paramilitary-style assaults.

The members of this cult are under suspicious of child abuse, a serious matter, but not on the level of a terrorist cell. I know some self-styled "operators" are thrilled with the prospect of trying out the expensive toys while acting out a hot assault on American civilians tangos, but hopefully some things have been learned since the Clintoon disasters.

48 posted on 04/05/2008 7:09:26 PM PDT by M203M4 (True Universal Suffrage: Pets of dead illegal-immigrant felons voting Democrat (twice))
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To: BerryDingle

uh, they will convert or kill us.


49 posted on 04/05/2008 7:09:41 PM PDT by television is just wrong
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To: snodog
Did you just go first amendment on polygamy?

As a matter of fact I did. Polygamy when entered into by consenting adults is none of the Governments business.

How do you feel about human sacrifice?

Since that's an act of murder, I'm pretty much against it.

Child rape?

Rape is an act of violence whether it's done to an adult or a child. So I'm pretty much against that, too.

Where do you draw the line?

I thought I made that clear. But it seems you need an even simpler explanation. So here it is:

Adults should be able to willingly, consentually enter into whatever 'marriage' arrangments they chose without any interference from the Government whatsoever.

L

50 posted on 04/05/2008 7:11:27 PM PDT by Lurker (Pimping my blog: http://lurkerslair-lurker.blogspot.com/)
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