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Ben Stein Exposes Richard Dawkins (Dawkins admits possibility of ID, Just Not God).
Townhall ^ | April 21, 2008 | Dinesh D'Souza

Posted on 04/21/2008 7:23:01 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

In Ben Stein's new film "Expelled," there is a great scene where Richard Dawkins is going on about how evolution explains everything. This is part of Dawkins' grand claim, which echoes through several of his books, that evolution by itself has refuted the argument from design. The argument from design hold that the design of the universe and of life are most likely the product of an intelligent designer. Dawkins thinks that Darwin has disproven this argument.

So Stein puts to Dawkins a simple question, "How did life begin?" One would think that this is a question that could be easily answered. Dawkins, however, frankly admits that he has no idea. One might expect Dawkins to invoke evolution as the all-purpose explanation. Evolution, however, only explains transitions from one life form to another. Evolution has no explanation for how life got started in the first place. Darwin was very clear about this.

In order for evolution to take place, there had to be a living cell. The difficulty for atheists is that even this original cell is a work of labyrinthine complexity. Franklin Harold writes in The Way of the Cell that even the simplest cells are more ingeniously complicated than man's most elaborate inventions: the factory system or the computer. Moreover, Harold writes that the various components of the cell do not function like random widgets; rather, they work purposefully together, as if cooperating in a planned organized venture. Dawkins himself has described the cell as the kind of supercomputer, noting that it functions through an information system that resembles the software code.

Is it possible that living cells somehow assembled themselves from nonliving things by chance? The probabilities here are so infinitesimal that they approach zero. Moreover, the earth has been around for some 4.5 billion years and the first traces of life have already been found at some 3.5 billion years ago. This is just what we have discovered: it's quite possible that life existed on earth even earlier. What this means is that, within the scope of evolutionary time, life appeared on earth very quickly after the earth itself was formed. Is it reasonable to posit that a chance combination of atoms and molecules, under those conditions, somehow generated a living thing? Could the random collision of molecules somehow produce a computer?

It is ridiculously implausible to think so. And the absurdity was recognized more than a decade ago by Francis Crick, co-discoverer of the DNA double helix. Yet Crick is a committed atheist. Unwilling to consider the possibility of divine or supernatural creation, Crick suggested that maybe aliens brought life to earth from another planet. And this is precisely the suggestion that Richard Dawkins makes in his response to Ben Stein. Perhaps, he notes, life was delivered to our planet by highly-evolved aliens. Let's call this the "ET" explanation.

Stein brilliantly responds that he had no idea Richard Dawkins believes in intelligent design! And indeed Dawkins does seem to be saying that alien intelligence is responsible for life arriving on earth. What are we to make of this? Basically Dawkins is surrendering on the claim that evolution can account for the origins of life. It can't. The issue now is simply whether a natural intelligence (ET) or a supernatural intelligence (God) created life. Dawkins can't bear the supernatural explanation and so he opts for ET. But doesn't it take as much, or more, faith to believe in extraterrestrial biology majors depositing life on earth than it does to believe in a transcendent creator?


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: benstein; dawkins; dineshdsouza; dsouza; expelled; franciscrick; intelligentdesign; moviereview; richarddawkins; stephenhawking
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To: antiRepublicrat
Afraid of ID PC with an ID congresscritter breathing down your neck. There was ample documented justification for his firing over the mishandling of artifacts. You saw the quotes, "I’d be run out of that town" for actions like his

That is paranoia since no congresscritter was breathing down anyone's neck. Sternberg eventually went to the executive department(OSC) for relief. Congress got involved evidently over a year after the emails and issued the report in Dec. 2006.

I also read the rest of the email traffic. I just reread 205, but I don’t see any basis for terminating his appt based on this sort of activity, suppose we call him on the phone and verbally ask him to do the right thing and resign?

The date stamp indicates that this email was prior to the "run out of that town" one and, in fact, Sternberg essentially confirms that the "run out of that town" tactic was tried.

The ID card, as you refer to it, or complaint of unfair treatment which it is, was "pulled" in 2004. The renewal came just recently.

641 posted on 04/30/2008 12:06:14 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: AndrewC
From a single individual, unless you can show more.

From a single individual in your case, unless you can show more. But given that the faculty was so mad, I'd bet on mine. There are other comments about people being surprised, knowing about it only after the web site came up. That would also indicate lack of consultation.

True, but when you are not involved in the compromise process

Neither was the other side, but they accepted it. The compromise was made by an independent outside commission (and not all scientiests) to ensure fairness. I think "Does not play well with others" accurately describes Dembski when dealing with real scientists. He apparently gets along fine with theologians. That's pretty telling.

So, Obama was a paid employee of the CPA.

Reasonable, given his positions on the issues. :)

The word is in the article, but not used by Dembski or his co-worker.

It wasn't by Dembski. Read the article.

It denied giving permission for connection in relation to the internet.

Exactly. And it supposedly denied permission to the Discovery Institute. Doesn't compute.

642 posted on 04/30/2008 12:31:21 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: AndrewC
I know that. I have openly called you disengenuous. You keep proving it. Now other people are having rational "discussions" with me, so buzz off.

Knock yourself out, Mr. "arrowheadness".

643 posted on 04/30/2008 12:37:38 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: AndrewC
That is paranoia since no congresscritter was breathing down anyone's neck.

That was just my guess. We do have evidence that he committed grave offenses, which would have been enough for firing in any case. So for whatever reason the statement was incorrect. What was the timing for the one guy willing to fall on his sword to sponsor him so he couldn't play martyr? Were they already paranoid of him playing the ID card when they said he did nothing wrong?

Face it, they knew this guy shouldn't be working there, but he's most likely only working there because he played the ID card. Affirmative Action at its best.

This reminds me of how when the white manager makes racist remarks he loses his job and the lawsuit award produces millions. But when the black manager makes racist remarks and actually makes racist employment decisions, he just gets a slap on the wrist and the award is a relative pittance.

Protected classes. Welcome to the new America. Thank the IDers for adding yet another one.

644 posted on 04/30/2008 12:39:35 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: tacticalogic

645 posted on 04/30/2008 12:40:05 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: AndrewC

You really want a fight that bad?


646 posted on 04/30/2008 12:48:28 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: antiRepublicrat
From a single individual in your case, unless you can show more. But given that the faculty was so mad, I'd bet on mine. There are other comments about people being surprised, knowing about it only after the web site came up. That would also indicate lack of consultation

If you are speaking about Sloan being the only person indicating that faculty outside of the IFL and himself as being the single individual, you are correct. Until the faculty members he did include in the process speak up, he will be the single individual. I believe him. Surprise is not fear. And no one denies that there are lots of Baylor faculty that were not consulted. Consultation was not a requirement for a non-academic "institution".

Neither was the other side, but they accepted it.

Oh

Some faculty members expressed "deep, genuine concern" after receiving an e-mail from the director of the Michael Polanyi Center a day after a report affirmed the center's legitimacy and credibility, according to the chairman of the Faculty Senate.

I have read the article. I am saying the word "association" was not used by Demski or his coworker. Use the search tool on the text. You can see that. Otherwise I will have to post the entire article here.

Exactly. And it supposedly denied permission to the Discovery Institute. Doesn't compute.

It may not compute to you, but the general statement applied to any external link. This is the exact text.

We do not endorse a connection to those sites at all. They didn't ask our permission. It would be better if they removed it, but we can't spend our time policing the Internet."

647 posted on 04/30/2008 1:02:35 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: AndrewC

I’m not too proud. Check the list and freepmail me links to horror stories surrounding people who have signed the statement. Don’t expect to hear from me for a couple of monts, minimum. I figure I can do 25 or fifty a day, once I get the database loaded. The problem is I have no automatic way to convert a pdf table to a delimited text file.

If you can do this it would save me a few hours.


648 posted on 04/30/2008 1:05:40 PM PDT by js1138
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To: tacticalogic
You really want a fight that bad?

I didn't want a fight at all. I wanted some rational discussion.Your continued disengenuousness keeps that from happening. And I have stated twice now in different ways that I have no interest in getting into a food fight with you so answer this if you like, but please don't bother me thereafter.

649 posted on 04/30/2008 1:06:16 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: js1138
The problem is I have no automatic way to convert a pdf table to a delimited text file.

Where is it? I'll try to zap the pumpkin into a carriage.(unless it is an image.)

650 posted on 04/30/2008 1:09:14 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: AndrewC

I don’t have it here. Try googling “A SCIENTIFIC DISSENT FROM DARWINISM”

You’re looking for an 18 page pdf.


651 posted on 04/30/2008 1:13:45 PM PDT by js1138
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To: AndrewC

You went ballistic over the suggestion that functionality is a valid test, when it’s a perfectly rational and reasonable thing to do, and in fact is commonly done. Why would you do that? It should have required no more than a few moments reflection to realize this, and if it hadn’t occurred to you initially, certainly should have well before now.


652 posted on 04/30/2008 1:40:42 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: antiRepublicrat
We're going all over the place here. Let's just sum this up, sticking with the facts:

Guillermo Gonzalez:

Richard Sternberg: Caroline Crocker: Robert Marks: Pamela Winnick: All I see are fake victims.

Sternberg falsely claiming persecution over the keys and move are especially telling, showing he was willing do everything he could to pull the ID card. You seem to trust the OSC complaint -- the keys and move were part of the complaint, and they are lies. What else is lies?

653 posted on 04/30/2008 1:45:21 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: AndrewC
It may not compute to you, but the general statement applied to any external link. This is the exact text. We do not endorse a connection to those sites at all. They didn't ask our permission.

You are removing the all-important context to turn an inconsistency into a generalized statement. The context was sites such as the Discovery Institute linking to them. Change the text of the quote to include the context and you have "We do not endorse a connection to the Discovery Institute at all." Yet here they are, with connections to the Discovery Institute. Funny.

654 posted on 04/30/2008 1:50:54 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: js1138
Here is the list of names 10 per line separated by commas.

Philip Skell,Lyle H. Jensen,Maciej Giertych,Lev Beloussov,Eugene Buff,Emil Palecek,K. Mosto Onuoha,Ferenc Jeszenszky,M.M. Ninan,Denis Fesenko
Sergey I. Vdovenko,Henry Schaefer,Paul Ashby,Israel Hanukoglu,Alan Linton,Dean Kenyon,David W. Forslund,Robert W. Bass,John Hey,Daniel W. Heinze
Richard Anderson,David Chapman*,Giuseppe Sermonti,Stanley Salthe,Marcos N. Eberlin,Bernard d'Abrera,Mae-Wan Ho,Donald Ewert,Russell Carlson,Scott Minnich
Jeffrey Schwartz,Alexander F. Pugach,Ralph Seelke,Annika Parantainen,Fred Schroeder,David Snoke,Frank Tipler,John A. Davison,James Tour,Pablo Yepes
David Bolender,Leo Zacharski,Michael Behe,Michael Atchison,Thomas G. Guilliams,Arthur B. Robinson,Joel Adams,Abraham S. Feigenbaum,Kevin Farmer,Neal Adrian
Ge Wang,Moorad Alexanian,Richard Spencer,Braxton Alfred,R. Craig Henderson,Wesley Allen,James Pierre Hauck,Mark Apkarian,Eshan Dias,Joseph Atkinson
Dennis Dean Rathman,Richard Austin,Raymond C. Mjolsness,John Baumgardner,Glenn R. Johnson,George Bennett,Robert L. Waters,David Berlinski,James Robert Dickens,Phillip Bishop
Jeffrey M. Jones,Donald R. Mull,John Bloom,William Dembski,Ben J. Stuart,Raymond Bohlin,Christa R. Koval,John Bordelon,David Richard Carta,Lydia G. Thebeau
David Bossard,Robert W. Kelley,David Bourell,Carlos M. Murillo,Walter Bradley,Sami Palonen,John Brejda,Bradley R. Johnson,Rudolf Brits,Gary Kastello
Frederick Brooks,Omer Faruk Noyan,Neil Broom,Malcolm D. Chisholm,John Brown,Joseph A. Kunicki,John Brumbaugh,Thomas M. Stackhouse,Nancy Bryson,Walter L. Starkey
Donald Calbreath,Pingnan Shi,John B. Cannon,John L. Burba,Stephen J. Cheesman,Mike Forward,Lowell D. White,Brian Landrum,David Chambers,Michael T. Goodrich
T. Timothy Chen,Sarah M. Williams,Donald Clark,John Frederick Zino,Shing-Yan Chiu,Todd A. Anderson,John Cimbala,Chris Swanson,Kieran Clements,Jan Chatham
George A. Gates,John Cogdell,David R. Beaucage,Leon Combs,Laraba P. Kendig,Nicholas Comninellis,Stephen Crouse,Cham Dallas,Charles N. Verheyden,Melody Davis
Thomas Deahl,Robert DeHaan,Gage Blackstone,Harold Delaney,Jonathan C. Boomgaarden,William Bordeaux,Michael Delp,Keith F. Conner,David DeWitt,Aaron J. Miller
Gary Dilts,Gerald Chubb,Robert DiSilvestro,Daniel Dix,Allison Dobson,David Prentice,Kenneth Dormer,Ernest Prabhakar,John Doughty,Jeanne Drisko
Robert Eckel,Seth Edwards,Eduard F. Schmitter,Lee Eimers,William J. Hedden,Daniel Ely,Pattle Pun,Thomas English,Rosalind Picard,Danielle Dalafave
Richard Erdlac,Michael C. Reynolds,Bruce Evans,Gary Achtemeier,William Everson,Susan L.M. Huck,James Florence,Douglas R. Buck,Margaret Flowers,Étienne Windisch
Mark Foster,Suzanne Sawyer Vincent,Clarence Fouche,Robert Blomgren,Kenneth French,Richard N. Taylor,Stephen C. Knowles,Marvin Fritzler,Walter E. Lillo,Mark Fuller
Daniel Galassini,Stanley E. Zager,Andrew Fong,John Garth,Glen O. Brindley,Ann Gauger,Pamela Faith Fahey,Paul Brown,Mark Geil,Ibrahim Barsoum
Jim Gibson,John W. Balliet,William Gilbert,Joe R. Eagleman,Warren Gilson,Raul Leguizamon,Steven Gollmer,Gene B. Chase,Chris Grace,James A. Ellard, Sr.
Richard Gunasekera,Jennifer M. Cohen,Russel Peak,Graham Gutsche,Dan Hale,Robert L. Jones,James Harbrecht,George W. Benthien,James Harman,Frederick T. Zugibe
William Harris,Thomas H. Johnson,Paul Hausgen,Gregory A. Snyder,Walter Hearn,Howard Martin Whitcraft,Nolan Hertel,Joseph Francis,Roland Hirsch,Todd Peterson
Charles Edward Norman,Dewey Hodges,James P. Russum,Marko Horb,Joe Watkins,Barton Houseman,Mark Pritt,Edward Peltzer,Cornelius Hunter,Rodney Ice
Malcolm W. MacArthur,Rafe Payne,Muzaffar Iqbal,Mark P. Bowman,David Ives,Amiel Jarstfer,Stephan J. G. Gift,Tony Jelsma,Fred Johnson,Raleigh R. White, IV
Jerry Johnson,Harold D. Cole,Yongsoon Park,Richard Johnson,David Hagen,David Johnson,Jay Hollman,Lawrence Johnston,Albert J. Starshak,Robert Jones
Scott T. Dreher,David Jones,Robert Kaita,Kenneth Demarest,Edwin Karlow,Francis M. Donahue,James Keener,Shawn Wright,Douglas Keil,Dave Finnegan
Micheal Kelleher,Christine B. Beaucage,Rebecca Keller,Gerald E. Hoyer,Michael Kent,William A. Eckert, III,Richard Kinch,Irfan Yilmaz,Bretta King,Mauricio Alcocer
R. Barry King,Hiroshi Ishii,Michael Kinnaird,Lasse Uotila,Donald Kobe,Martin Emery,Charles Koons,Miguel A. Rodriguez,Carl Koval,Magda Narciso Leite
Bruce Krogh,Tetsuichi Takagi,Daniel Kuebler,William Notz,Wesley Nyborg,Peter William Holyland,Paul Kuld,Heather Kuruvilla,Nancy L. Swanson,Martin LaBar
William B. Hart,Teresa Larranaga,Yuri Zharikov,Ronald Larson,Wolfgang Hutter,Robert Lattimer,Robert J. Graham,M. Harold Laughlin,Samuel C. Winchester,George Lebo
Kurt J. Henle,J.B. Lee,James O. Dritt,Matti Leisola,Manuel Garcia Ulloa Gomez,E. Lennard,Glen E. Deal,Lane Lester,Paul Whitehead,Catherine Lewis
John R. Goltz,Peter Line,Gerald P. Bodey,Garrick Little,John Nichols,Mark Bearden,Harry Lubansky,Daniel L. Moran,Ken Ludema,Jed Macosko
Nigel Surridge,Christopher Macosko,David Keller,Allen Magnuson,Amy Ward,Donald Mahan,Shane A. Kasten,Robert Marks,Jesus Ambriz,Julie Marshall
Jay L. Wile,David McClellan,Evgeny Shirokov,Andy McIntosh,Mark A. Robinson,Tom McMullen,Martin Poenie,Tony Mega,Carl Poppe,James Menart
Theodor Liss,James Keesling,Brian Miller,Christopher D. Beling,Art Nitz,Thomas Milner,David Ness,Forrest Mims,S. W. Pelletier*,Paul Missel
Dónal O'Mathúna,Lennart Möller,Victoriano Saenz,David Monson,Hugh Nutley*,Terry Morrison,Bijan Nemati,William Russell Belding,Bridget Ingham,Paul Nesselroade
Kevin L. Kendig,Robert Newman,Angus Menuge,Khawar Sohail Siddiqui,Janet Parker,Scott Northrup,John Omdahl*,Fazale Rana,Rebecca Orr,Cevat Babuna
Lawrence Overzet,J. Meredith,Siddarth Pandey,Gordon Mills,A. Clyde Hill,Stephen Meyer,William Purcell,Paul Randolph,Christopher Morbey,David Reed
Charles D. Johnson,J. Ishizaki,David Rogstad,Arthur John Jones,Patricia Reiff,Oleh Havrysh,Dan Reynolds,Andrew Steckley,Terry Rickard,Arlen W. Siert
Mubashir Hanif,Eliot Roberts,Mario Beauregard,Quinton Rogers,Liang Hong,Daniel Romo,David Sabatini,Richard Buggs,Theodore Saito,Kay Roscoe
Thomas Saleska,James F. Drake,Fernando Saravi,Harold Toups,Phillip Savage,Seyyed Imran Husnain,Dale Schaefer,Russell C. Healey,Siegfried Scherer,Stuart C. Burgess
Norman Schmidt,Steve Maxwell,Andrew Schmitz,Anne E. Vravick,Granville Sewell,Richard A. Strong,Marshall Adams,Stephen Sewell,Gregory Shearer,Douglas Nelson Rose
David Shormann,Paul Lorenzini,Dale Spence,David W. Dykstra,Arnold Sikkema,Larry S. Helmick,Georgia Purdom,John Silvius,Philip S. Taylor,Fred Skiff
Giulio D. Guerra,Ken Smith,Jacquelyn W. McClelland,Robert Smith,Ian C. Fuller,Wolfgang Smith,Wayne L. Cook,John Stamper,Jeffrey L. Vaughn,Timothy Standish
William Hankley,Walt Stangl,John C. Walton,Karl Stephan,Cahit Babuna,Richard Sternberg,Reid W. Castrodale,Michael Strauss,Jason David Ward,Scott A. Renner
John Studenroth,Peter M. Rowell,Mark Swanson,João Jorge Ribeiro Soares,James Swanson,Justin Holl,Bela Szilagyi,Richard Mann,Daniel Tedder,Derek Linkens
Charles Thaxton,Lee M. Spetner,Christopher L. Thomas,Sture Blomberg,Pavithran Thomas,Leonard Loose,Richard Thompson,D. Albrey Arrington,Stephen Lloyd,James R. Thompson
Denis M. Boyle,Ide Trotter,Kevin E. Spaulding,Royal Truman,Robert VanderVennen,Nigel E. Robinson,Vincente Villa,Margil Wadley,Clifton L. Kehr,Carston Wagner
Karl Heinz Kienitz,Linda Walkup,James Tumlin,David Van Dyke,John Walkup,Pieder Beeli,Robert Waltzer,James R. Brawer,Todd Watson,Weimin Gao
Woody Weed,Heikki Martikka,Gerald Wegner,Richard R. Neptune,Jonathan Wells,Alexandre S. Soares,Robert Wentworth,Einar W. Palm,R.P. Wharton,Sandra Gade
Elden Whipple,Chee K. Yap,Mark White,Charles Detwiler,Terrance Murphy,Ed Neeland,Gregg Wilkerson,Joseph M. Marra,Ken Pascoe,John H. Whitmore
Ernest L. Brannon,Christopher Williams,Georg A. Speck,J. Mitch Wolff,Thomas D. Gillespie,John Worraker,Alexander Yankovsky,John C. Zink,Patrick Young,David Zartman
Charles T. Rombough,Henry Zuill,Jane M. Orient,Frank Young,Murray E. Moore,William J. Powers,Max G. Walter,Rosa María Muñoz,Scott R. Fulton,Don Olson
Graham Marshall,Philip R. Page,Roger Wiens,Mark Toleman,Robert O. Kalbach,Gregory J. Brewer,Neil Huber,Marc C. Daniels,J.D. Moolenburgh,Roger Lien
Dean Schulz,John Millam,Joseph Lary,Richard S. Beale, Jr.,Ernest M. Thiessen,Tianyou Wang,Øyvind A. Voie,David K. Shortess,A.D. Harrison,William P. Shulaw
Darrell R. Parnell,Daniel W. Barnette,David William Jensen,Edward M. Bohn,Robert G. Vos,Yvonne Boldt,William B. Collier,Edward Gade,James E. Nymann,Malcolm A. Cutchins
Lisanne D’Andrea-Winslow,Holger Daugaard,Shieu-Hong Lin,W. John Durfee,Dominic M. Halsmer,Charles B. Lowrey,Jeffrey H. Harwell,Frank Cheng,David Heddle,Yoshiyuki Amemiya
Barbara S. Helmkamp,David C. Kem,C. Thomas Luiskutty,Wusi Maki,A. Cordell Perkes,John D. Cook,Tony Prato,Charles G. Sanny,Jairam Vanamala,Gordon L. Wilson
Robin D. Zimmer,Karl Duff,David Jansson,C. Steven Murphree,Alfred G. Ratz,Chris Cellucci,Gary Maki,Ronald S. Carson,Joseph A. Strada,Olaf Karthaus
Arnold Eugene Carden,John B. Marshall,Robert B. Sheldon,B. K. Nelson,Hansik Yoon,David Conover,Luis Paulo Franco de Barros,Richard W. Pooley,Arthur Chadwick,Lennart Saari
Douglas G. Frank,James G. Tarrant,N. Ricky Byrn,Mark S. Whorton,Jeffrey E. Lander,Curtis Hawkins,Mary A. Brown,Thomas H. Marshall,Charles H. McGowen,Ronald R. Crawford
Matti Junnila,Dean Svoboda,Ruth C. Miles,Mark J. Lattery,William McVaugh,Jeffrey M. Goff,Jarrod W. Carter,David B. Medved,Theodore W. Geier,Christian Heiss
G. Bradley Schaefer,Bruce Simat,Teresa Gonske,Thomas Mundie,Scott S. Kinnes,James A. Huggins,Jonathan A. Zderad,Michael R. Egnor,I. Caroline Crocker,Donald J. Hanrahan
Gintautas Jazbutis,Paul S. Darby,Changhyuk An,L. Kirt Martin,Gerald Schroeder,Rod Rogers,David W. Herrin,Glen Needham,E. Byron Rogers,Vladimir L. Voeikov
Ricardo Leon,Eugene C. Ashby,JoAnne Larsen,Douglas Axe,Joel Brind,William F. Basener,L. Whit Marks,Perry Mason,Timothy A. Mixon,Lawrence DeMejo
Charles Garner,Lynne Parker,Ivan M. Lang,David J. Lawrence,John G. Hoey,Theodore J. Siek,John P. Rickert,Christian M. Loch,David W. Rusch,Charles A. Signorino
Luke Randall,Jan Frederic Dudt,Glenn A. Marsch,Eduardo Sahagun,Mark A. Chambers,Daniel Howell,Joel D. Hubbard,C. Roger Longbotham,Hugh L. Henry,Jonathan D. Eisenback
Eduardo Arroyo,Peter Silley,E. Norbert Smith,Peter C. Iwen,Paul Roschke,Luman R. Wing,Edward F. Blick,Wesley M. Taylor,Don England,Wayne Linn
James Gundlach,Guillermo Gonzalez,Tim Droubay,Gregory D. Bossart,Barry Homer,Jiøí Vácha,Richard J. Neves,David Deming,Gregory A. Ator,Erkki Jokisalo
John S. Roden,Donald W. Russell,Neil Armitage,Geoff Barnard,Richard Hassing,Olivia Torres,Donald A. Kangas,Alvin Masarira,George A. Ekama,Alistair Donald
Thomas C. Majerus,Ferenc Farkas,Scott A. Chambers,Cris Eberle,Dennis M. Sullivan,Rodney M. Rutland,Alastair M. Noble,Robert D. Orr,Laverne Miller,Laura Burke
Terry W. Spencer,Bert Massie,Mark C. Porter,S. Thomas Abraham,John L. Hoffer,Anita McElroy,Herman Branover,Martin Krause,James G. Bentsen,Curtis Hrischuk
Guang-Hong Chen,Doug Hufstedler,Justin Long,James E. Rankin,Donald F. Smee,Colin R. Reeves


If you want a different format ask. The names are public.
655 posted on 04/30/2008 2:44:07 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: antiRepublicrat
You are removing the all-important context to turn an inconsistency into a generalized statement.

I don't agree with your view on this, the statement includes the word internet, but it really doesn't matter. The center does not deny association with DI. DI was a sponsor of the conference.

656 posted on 04/30/2008 2:47:18 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: AndrewC
That is paranoia since no congresscritter was breathing down anyone's neck.

Maybe not personally. But they were certainly worried about the possibility and the general political climate very early on: in September 2004, one person wrote "I was strongly advised that we do not make a 'martyr' out of Sternberg; you may be aware that there are powerful members of Congress who would rush to his defense." In another e-mail, which I can't locate right now, they worried about "lurid" hearings on Capitol Hill. So they were definitely worried about a political backlash.

Nevertheless, in 10/04, one of the managers wrote, "This issue has now been dealt with at length, and NMNH will not take action against Sternberg as he has not violated the SI-approved terms for Research Associates."

When his RA contract was up, he was given another contract as a Research Collaborator--in a letter dated 11/28/06: "It is a pleasure to inform you of your appointment as Research Collaborator at the National Museum of Natural History, Smithsonian Institution, for a period of three years."

Someone inquired on Sternberg's behalf about the difference between an RC and an RA, and this was the answer: "A [RA] works more closely with NMNH staff, often on joint projects....A [RC] is less closely involved with NMNH staff and generally works on his own projects using NMNH resources. [RA] and [RC] both have access to work space and to the collections they need for their projects."

So, far from being "expelled," he was given a new contract and more autonomy. However, he had to work with people who didn't love him, poor baby.

657 posted on 04/30/2008 2:52:36 PM PDT by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
However, he had to work with people who didn't love him, poor baby.

You mischaracterize the record. The emails indicate that they did not want to work with him. His crime? He allowed the publication of an "ID" paper. As the email traffic clearly indicates his work was not the issue. The issue was, as hinted by the NCSE, which is not the SI, to destroy the paper. That should have been a cakewalk in their eyes by doing what is normally done publish an argument against the evidence or conclusions. Instead, they go to extremes to "get" the person that allowed such an affront to them. The email traffic certainly indicates that.

658 posted on 04/30/2008 3:26:19 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: AndrewC
I don't agree with your view on this, the statement includes the word internet, but it really doesn't matter.

The whole context:

Another concern of the Baylor arts and science faculty are the alternative science links, such as the Creationism Connection and Discovery Institute, that now appear on or connect to the Polanyi web site.

"We now show up in a cohort of people that Baylor has worked very hard at disassociating themselves with," Weaver said. "So, my concern is partly how quickly word is going to get out and how compromised it will make us look?"

Weaver considers the links "damning publicity" and is fearful such implications could scare off potential faculty and promising medical students.

Beatty understands their concern.

"I understand the science faculty's point of view regarding the web sites," Beatty said. "It is understandable how the center's interest is presented, or in this case, misrepresented."

Beatty said it was "regrettable that the net could be used to misrepresent your work" but explains that "when you are on the net, you are vulnerable to a lot of outside links and are unable to control who links to you or how your work is perceived."

Gordon agrees with Beatty that such links are unfortunate.

In an interview with the Waco Tribune Herald, Gordon said, "We have no control over who decides to link to our site. We do not endorse a connection to those sites at all. They didn't ask our permission. It would be better if they removed it, but we can't spend our time policing the Internet."

One of those sites, as mentioned in the article, is the Discovery Institute.
659 posted on 04/30/2008 3:35:12 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: AndrewC
His crime? He allowed the publication of an "ID" paper.

Nice whitewash. Follow:

Basically, the scientists at the SI were afraid Sternberg would embarrass them and the SI as he did the people at the journal. I'm sure the fact that he deliberately went behind people's backs and didn't follow procedure doesn't help much either. Scientists are very protective of their reputations and don't want to associate with anyone who might ruin it.

IOW, he ruined his own reputation. He shouldn't be able to play victim when he caused his own troubles.

In fact, reputation and standing in the discipline are requirements to be an RA at the SI. Having lost that is a good enough reason for him to lose his RA status.

660 posted on 04/30/2008 3:52:45 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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