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To: Choose Ye This Day

“The ‘gene’ that Warren is really selecting for,” Wyler says, “is the ‘obedience gene.’

“Joseph Smith was also selecting for the ‘obedience gene.’ He was kicking people out, too, who weren’t obedient.

I’ve thought this for a while as well. The only ones who remain in the Mormon church have to remain willfully ignorant of other options. Some of the debates here prove this.


80 posted on 04/23/2008 8:09:02 AM PDT by FastCoyote (I am intolerant of the intolerable.)
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To: FastCoyote
“Joseph Smith was also selecting for the ‘obedience gene.’ He was kicking people out, too, who weren’t obedient.

Yes, that is true. In the 1840s at one LDS general authorities meeting, Smith demanded the wives of all 12 present. (Now later it was claimed he wasn't really interested in adding all dozen wives to his personal clain; that he was just testing their level of sacrifice & obedience to him...and that's likely true...I'm sure he wasn't planning on adding a dozen wives...but I'm sure he wouldn't have minded 1, 2, or 3 of them).

As it turned out, Smith's marriage to 14 yo Helen Mar Kimball was an outcome of that meeting. For Helen Mar's father who was at the meeting, it was a temporary personal crisis...would he yield his wife, or be disobedient to "the prophet?" As it turned out, Heber C. Kimball, who himself went on to accumulate 40 wives, elected to offer up his daughter instead:

From Changing World of Mormonism, pp. 236-237:

"The fact that Joseph Smith asked for other men's wives was made very plain in a sermon delivered in the tabernacle by Jedediah M. Grant, second counselor to Brigham Young. In this sermon, delivered February 19, 1854, Jedediah M. Grant stated:"

When the family organization was revealed from heaven—the patriarchal order of God, and Joseph began, on the right and on the left, to add to his family, what a quaking there was in Israel. Says one brother to another, "Joseph says all covenants are done away, and none are binding but the new covenants; now suppose Joseph should come and say he wanted your wife, what would you say to that?" "I would tell him to go to hell." This was the spirit of many in the early days of this Church....What would a man of God say, who felt aright, when Joseph asked him for his money? He would say, "Yes, and I wish I had more to help to build up the kingdom of God." Or if he came and said, "I want your wife?" "O Yes," he would say, "here she is, there are plenty more." ... Did the Prophet Joseph want every man's wife he asked for? He did not ... If such a man of God should come to me and say, "I want your gold and silver, or your wives," I should say, "Here they are, I wish I had more to give you, take all I have got" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, pp.13-14).

"In his book Mormon Portraits (pp.70-72), Dr. Wyl presents some revealing information:"

Joseph Smith finally demanded the wives of all the twelve Apostles that were at home then in Nauvoo....Vilate Kimball, the first wife of Heber C. Kimball,...loved her husband, and he,...loved her, hence a reluctance to comply with the Lord's demand that Vilate should be consecrated....They thought the command of the Lord must be obeyed in some way, and a "proxy" way suggested itself to their minds. They had a young daughter only getting out of girlhood; and the father apologizing to the prophet for his wife's reluctance to comply with his desires, stating, however, that the act must be right or it would not be counselled...asked Joe if his daughter wouldn't do as well as his wife. Joe replied that she would do just as well, and the Lord would accept her instead. The half-ripe bud of womanhood was delivered over to the Prophet.

"The fact that Joseph Smith asked for Heber C. Kimball's wife but actually married his daughter is verified in the book The Life of Heber C. Kimball, written by Apostle Orson F. Whitney:

Before he would trust even Heber with the full secret, however, he put him to a test which few men would have been able to bear. It was no less than a requirement for him to surrender his wife, his beloved Vilate, and give her to Joseph in marriage! The astounding revelation well-nigh paraly[z]ed him. He could hardly believe he had heard aright. Yet Joseph was solemnly in earnest....He knew Joseph too well...to doubt his truth or the divine origin of the behest he had made....Three days he fasted and wept and prayed. Then, with a broken and a bleeding heart, but with soul self-mastered for the sacrifice, he led his darling wife to the Prophet's house and presented her to Joseph. It was enough—the heavens accepted the sacrifice. The will for the deed was taken, and 'accounted unto him for righteousness.' Joseph wept at this proof of devotion, and embracing Heber told him that was all the Lord required....The Prophet joined the hands of the heroic and devoted pair, and then and there, ... Heber and Vilate Kimball were made husband and wife for all eternity (Life of Heber C. Kimball, pp.333-35).

Helen Mar, the eldest daughter of Heber Chase and Vilate Kimball, was given to the Prophet in the holy bonds of Celestial Marriage(p.339).

82 posted on 04/23/2008 8:42:40 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: FastCoyote

Not at all. Many of us have been part of those “other options,” and found them sorely wanting.


89 posted on 04/23/2008 10:15:14 AM PDT by Choose Ye This Day (Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. (Psalms 82:6))
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