Posted on 05/23/2008 10:12:33 AM PDT by LeGrande
Oh yeah, I've got one that thinks that children have a 'right' to be in foster care. Not much you can say that will change a mentality like that.
Putting kids into foster care where people get money to take care of kids and abuse rates are through the roof. Be very afraid. These people are serious.
Or else, what?
Calling the Admin Monitor? About one of my posts to DannyTN?
Let me provide a little background. Both FastCoyote and DannyTN sent me an obscene picture of a man kissing a 12 year old girl and FastCoyote accused me of "getting our kicks" by looking at 12 year old girls. See posts 126 and 128.
So Virginia Ridgerunner, are you defending your comrades actions of sending obscene pictures and accusing the recipients of "getting their kicks" by looking at the picture of a twelve year old girl kissing a much older man? This is a thoroughly vile and disgusting technique.
Admin Moderator, I have a list of posters who typically use techniques similar to this and then implying that the recipient, who they disagree with, is some kind of deviant. I have made the determination to simply reply in kind whenever they attack me.
I have never asked the Admin Moderator to remove a post, because I believe that leaving this kind of disgusting display out in the open is the best disinfectant.
“Then we can agree that they are innocent until they are proven guilty in a court of Law.”
They are certainly innocent until proven guilty. However, that is a different issue than whether they can be detained or enjoined from certain actions (like polygamous child marriage) in the mean time. And many failures of the legal system are resolved after the fact. So those who claim the Constitution has been destroyed in Eldorado I believe are far off base.
Who is innocent until proved guilty with a trial by jury in a court of law.
I find it strange that those who are most actively defending the cultists and making the claim of innocent until proved guilty are so willing to condemn this alleged hoax caller without evidence and without the trial that they are demanding for the flDS.
She's being condemned because of her past history and yet the fLDs which also has a history, whose leaders is in jail on rape related charges and which other leaders are facing charges, which apparently don't count?
When it's against the alleged hoax caller, she's guilty already because she has a history. When it's the cult, those involved are innocent because its history is just because someone has an axe to grind, in spite of the convictions of Jeffs.
Why the double standard?
bkmkg your excellent post at #233
Source? You will have to do better than just trying to spread false rumors. The appellate court has already determined that the CPS illegally detained adult women.
Get a clue, bub:
From LDS' Familysearch.org:
Doctrines & Covenants, Verses 62-63: And if he [Joseph Smith] have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.... for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified.
Contemporous accounts of Joe Smith's wives, liaisons, and children:
- Faithful Mormon Melissa Lott (Smith Willes) testified that she had been Joseph's wife "in very deed." (Affidavit of Melissa Willes, 3 Aug. 1893, Temple Lot case, 98, 105; Foster, Religion and Sexuality, 156.)
- In a court affidavit, faithful Mormon Joseph Noble wrote that Joseph told him he had spent the night with Louisa Beaman. (Temple Lot Case, 427)
- Emily D. Partridge (Smith Young) said she "roomed" with Joseph the night following her marriage to him and said that she had "carnal intercourse" with him. (Temple Lot case (complete transcript), 364, 367, 384; see Foster, Religion and Sexuality, 15.)
In total, 13 faithful latter-day saint women who were married to Joseph Smith swore court affidavits that they had sexual relations with him.
- Joseph Smith's personal secretary records that on May 22nd, 1843, Smith's first wife Emma found Joseph and Eliza Partridge secluded in an upstairs bedroom at the Smith home. Emma was devastated. William Clayton's journal entry for 23 May (see Smith, 105-106)
- Smith's secretary William Clayton also recorded a visit to young Almera Johnson on May 16, 1843: "Prest. Joseph and I went to B[enjamin] F. Johnsons to sleep." Johnson himself later noted that on this visit Smith stayed with Almera "as man and wife" and "occupied the same room and bed with my sister, that the previous month he had occupied with the daughter of the late Bishop Partridge as his wife." Almera Johnson also confirmed her secret marriage to Joseph Smith: "I lived with the prophet Joseph as his wife and he visited me at the home of my brother Benjamin F." (Zimmerman, I Knew the Prophets, 44. See also "The Origin of Plural Marriage, Joseph F. Smith, Jr., Deseret News Press, page 70-71.)
- Faithful Mormon and Stake President Angus Cannon told Joseph Smith's son: "Brother Heber C. Kimball, I am informed, asked [Eliza R. Snow] the question if she was not a virgin although married to Joseph Smith and afterwards to Brigham Young, when she replied in a private gathering, "I thought you knew Joseph Smith better than that."" (Stake President Angus M. Cannon, statement of interview with Joseph III, 23, LDS archives.)
- Stake President Angus Cannon also testified: "I will now refer you to one case where it was said by the girl's grandmother that your father [Joseph Smith] has a daughter born of a plural wife. The girl's grandmother was Mother Sessions . . . She was the grand-daughter of Mother Sessions. That girl, I believe, is living today, in Bountiful, north of this city. I heard prest. Young, a short time before his death, refer to the report . . . The woman is now said to have a family of children, and I think she is still living." (Stake President Angus M. Cannon, statement of interview with Joseph III, 25-26, LDS archives.)
- Faithful Mormon and wife of Joseph Smith, Sylvia Sessions (Lyon), on her deathbed told her daughter, Josephine, that she (Josephine) was the daughter of Joseph Smith. Josephine testified: "She (Sylvia) then told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith, she having been sealed to the Prophet at the time that her husband Mr. Lyon was out of fellowship with the Church." (Affidavit to Church Historian Andrew Jenson, 24 Feb. 1915)
- In her testimony given at a Brigham Young University devotional, Faithful Mormon Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner stated that she knew of children born to Smith's plural wives: "I know he [Joseph Smith] had six wives and I have known some of them from childhood up. I know he had three children. They told me. I think two are living today but they are not known as his children as they go by other names." (Read her full BYU testimony here. (from http://www.ldshistory.net/pc/merlbyu.htm)
- Faithful Mormon Prescindia D. Huntington, who was Normal Buell's wife and simultaneously a "plural wife" of the Prophet Joseph Smith, said that she did not know whether her husband Norman "or the Prophet was the father of her son, Oliver." And a glance at a photo of Oliver shows a strong resemblance to Emma Smith's boys. (Mary Ettie V. Smith, "Fifteen Years Among the Mormons", page 34; also Fawn Brodie "No Man Knows My History" pages 301-302, 437-39)
- Researchers have tentatively identified eight children that Joseph Smith may have had by his plural wives. Besides Josephine Fisher (b. Feb. 8, 1844) and Oliver Buell, named as possible children of Joseph Smith by his plural wives are John R. Hancock (b. Apr. 19, 1841), George A. Lightner (b. Mar. 12, 1842), Orson W. Hyde (b. Nov. 9, 1843), Frank H. Hyde (b. Jan 23, 1845), Moroni Pratt (b. Dec. 7, 1844), and Zebulon Jacobs (b. Jan 2, 1842). ("Mormon Polygamy: A History" by LDS Historian Richard S. Van Wagoner, pages 44, 48- 49n3.)
Joseph Smith to Newel K. Whitney's daughter Sarah Ann: "... the only thing to be careful of; is to find out when Emma comes then you cannot be safe, but when she is not here, there is the most perfect safty. ... Only be careful to escape observation, as much as possible, I know it is a heroick undertakeing; but so much the greater friendship, and the more Joy, when I see you I will tell you all my plans, I cannot write them on paper, burn this letter as soon as you read it; keep all locked up in your breasts, my life depends upon it. ... I close my letter, I think Emma wont come tonight if she dont, dont fail to come to night, I subscribe myself your most obedient, and affectionate, companion, and friend. Joseph Smith." - Joseph Smith, Handwritten Letter
Oh, since you obviously didn't get the news:
New LDS manual acknowledges Joseph Smith taught polygamy
Have a good one...!
The silence speaks volumes.
Hysterical demands for evidence from the FLDS apologists on this thread aside, Texas really is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. Right?
The appellate court has already determined that the CPS illegally detained adult women
______________________________________________
Source ????????????????????
Legrande: [Provide a single contemporaneous verifiable reference to any of Joseph Smiths “wives.” ]
So, I guess we can’t believe what the familysearch.org site run by the LDS themselves says? Bwahahaha
**************
Joseph SMITH (AFN: 9KGL-W2) Pedigree
Sex: M Family
Event(s)
Birth: 23 Dec 1805
Sharon, Windsor, Vermont
Death: 27 Jun 1844
Carthage Jail, Hancock, Illinois
Burial: 29 Jun 1844
Nauvoo, Hancock, Illinois
Parents
Father: Joseph SMITH (AFN: 4C9X-LR) Family
Mother: Lucy MACK (AFN: 4C9X-MX)
Marriage(s)
Spouse: Catherine WALKER (AFN: 1CB1-M7) Family
Marriage:
Spouse: Sarah SCOTT (AFN: 1Z2L-ST) Family
Marriage:
Spouse: Sarah STILES (AFN: 8R67-VW) Family
Marriage:
Spouse: Desdemona Wadsworth FULLMER (AFN: 2S9J-LX) Family
Marriage: 1842
Nauvoo, Hancock, Il
Spouse: Sarah LAWRENCE (AFN: 8R65-X0) Family
Marriage: Abt 11 1843 May
Spouse: Mary Elizabeth ROLLINS (AFN: 17RW-FT) Family
Marriage: 17 Jan 1842
Nauvoo, Hancock, Il
Spouse: Emma HALE (AFN: 91T1-HN) Family
Marriage: 18 Jan 1827
South Bainbridge, Chenango, Ny
Spouse: Amanda Melissa BARNES (AFN: 1S4B-X9) Family
Marriage: Sealed 19 1852 Jan
Salt Lake City, Ut
Spouse: Sylvia Porter SESSIONS (AFN: 1H4D-3M) Family
Marriage: 26 Jan 1846
Spouse: Zina Diantha HUNTINGTON (AFN: 8R65-S9) Family
Marriage: 27 Oct 1841
Nauvoo, Hancock, Il
Spouse: Mary HOUSTON (AFN: 2HDJ-8W) Family
Marriage: 3 Feb 1846
Spouse: Nancy Mariah WINCHESTER (AFN: 34HH-3H) Family
Marriage: 3 Feb 1846
Spouse: Helen Mar KIMBALL (AFN: 1FZD-48) Family
Marriage: May 1843
Smith’s Store, Nauvoo, Hancock, Il
Spouse: Lucy WALKER (AFN: 3FNF-72) Family
Marriage: 1 May 1843
Smith’s Store, Nauvoo, Hancock, Il
Spouse: Rhoda RICHARDS (AFN: 1F72-5R) Family
Marriage: 12 Jun 1843
Nauvoo, Illinois
Spouse: Eliza Roxey SNOW (AFN: 272Q-KP) Family
Marriage: 29 Jun 1842
Smith’s Store, Nauvoo, Hancock, Il
Spouse: Sarah Ann WHITNEY (AFN: 3LTZ-0W) Family
Marriage: 27 Jul 1842
Nauvoo, Hnck, Il
Spouse: Martha MCBRIDE (AFN: 1JJW-V0) Family
Marriage: Aug 1842
Smith’s Store, Nauvoo, Hancock, Il
Spouse: Malissa LOTT (AFN: 1CZR-T8) Family
Marriage: 20 Sep 1843
Nauvoo, Illinois
Spouse: Fanny YOUNG (AFN: 1BK5-VM) Family
Marriage: 2 Nov 1843
Spouse: Prescendia Lathrop HUNTINGTON (AFN: 1RBQ-97) Family
Marriage: 11 Dec 1841
Smith’s Store, Nauvoo, Hancock, Il
Spouse: Sophronia Gray FROST (AFN: 2HZ7-PN) Family
Marriage:
Spouse: Melissa SNOW (AFN: 272Q-N7) Family
Marriage:
Spouse: Cordelia Calista MORLEY (AFN: 1CP9-HR) Family
Marriage:
You haven’t been speaking to me, when have I ever been silent.
That pic, dude, is the very evidence that you and your "cabal" has been howling for over the past couple of weeks. It was the first anniversary picture of Jeffs and his 13-year-old wife, one of several young girls in his harem.
The truth hurts, doesn't it?
Isaiah 3:12 - "Youths oppress my people, women rule over them. O my people, your guides lead you astray; they turn you from the path."
Why didn't you ping the moderator? Ashamed? Nah, you aren't capable of shame are you.
Did JS teach polygamy? Of course. The burden of proof is on you to prove that he practiced it. You can't. About the best you can do is show an affair or two. Good luck.
Here's is marriage records from Familysearch.org which is an LDS publication. If the LDS church's official publications clearly indicate that Joseph Smith had many wives, why do you deny it?
The “young girl” is now in her 20s, is aware of the pics, and has escaped from the cult... She has written a book, “Stolen Innocence” and willing helps to rescue other girls... And is helping with the girls from this compound..
Which makes the State's use of the photographs even more disingenuous. If what you say is true, her influence on her brother and sister in-law would almost certainly reduce whatever risks (if any) that the State believes their infant son would encounter. Wouldn't she be likely to influence her nephew when he is older in a way which would reduce the likelihood of him fully accepting the tenets of the FLDS? After all, she could just give him a copy of her book to read in 12 years or so.
About the best you can do is show an affair or two.
__________________________________________
Thank you
that’s a good start...
The false prophet Joseph Smith was an adulterer...
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