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To: DannyTN

Which is the more moral person.

The atheist that lives a moral life because he is considerate of his fellow humans or the non-atheist that leads a moral life so he will go to heaven?


414 posted on 01/07/2010 8:40:16 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: ColdWater
"The atheist that lives a moral life because he is considerate of his fellow humans or the non-atheist that leads a moral life so he will go to heaven?"

Which one is more moral? Two convicts are sentenced to death. They are both offered a pardon by the governor. One refuses the pardon. The other accepts the pardon.

There are two flaws in your premise.

The first is that you are still trying to compare people on a scale of human goodness. Both your atheist and your non-atheist were found guilty by the Lord and sentenced to death. But the non-atheist assuming it's a true Christian non-athiest will receive a pardon. You're still viewing it from a human perspective where one is less evil than the other. From God's perspective both were evil. Yet God loved both while they were still sinners and died for both. Sadly, only one accepted the pardon.

The second flaw, is that the non-atheist leads a moral life so he will go to heaven. That's not the way it works. Scripture says nobody is saved by the law. "By grace are ye saved, not by works, lest any man should boast." The reason Christians do good works, is that they love the Lord. They don't have to earn their salvation, they already have it, it was an unmerited gift. All they had to do was accept it.

And here's how Jesus answered your question.

Jhn 3:18-21 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

You see in God's eyes, those that recognize that they have done evil and repent and seek out the Lord, they are more moral. They choose good. Those that don't, have chosen evil, because they loved darkness.

Of course, if your atheist has always led a moral life because he is considerate of his fellow man, then he has no need of a savior. Jesus didn't come to save the righteous. But scripture says nobody has done that except Jesus and He was God incarnate.

415 posted on 01/07/2010 11:57:23 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: ColdWater
Have you had a chance to digest that last response?

To go back and answer your question, certainly a person who cares about others is more moral than someone who acts out of self interest. But it's still the wrong question.

The righteous non-believer is a hypothetical that doesn't exist, any more than a righteous believer exists apart from the imputed righteousness of Jesus.

God declared that none of us were righteous. So for one convict to reject the pardon while claiming he's better than the other convict, is pointless. He may in fact be better than the other convict, but he still falls short of true righteousness, and unless he accepts the pardon, he will die.

416 posted on 01/10/2010 1:10:46 AM PST by DannyTN
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To: ColdWater; DannyTN; Travis McGee; dixiechick2000

It’s not my fight but who’s more moral is an argument that matters to anthroprocentrics like yourself.

Theocentrists like myself and Danny whilst not eschewing morality consider it secondary to salvation as a benchmark.

However, once salvation is accepted then one could expect an adhrence to our taught and even innate morality.

We all hear the voice of God, even you atheists. You don’t act moral as you say just randomly or even strictly from conditioning.

I have 5 kids, even little babies know it’s wrong to kill puppies..where did their voice of good come from.

They also know to fear evil very quick as well...they have a sense of it....

You can’t possibly think all of this is just a cosmic acident and that your own life has no direction of purpose built into it by your creator.

I’m living proof that we all have it...I can ping several freepers here who can attest to that without me having to make a public confssional-testimony. Very few folks have lived thr road map I have to get here by God’s plan I can promise you and a large number of folks depend on that providence.

I hope it comes to you...at least a nod to something that created you.


417 posted on 01/10/2010 1:28:41 AM PST by wardaddy (Ole Miss beat Oklahoma State....and Bama is #1.....it's good to be from Dixie...cold though)
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