Posted on 07/02/2008 10:57:09 AM PDT by bamahead
Do you have a link? Searching turned up nothing.
Don’t declare anyone guilty of “hypocrisy” until you learn your Bible. Christ never named an “11th commandment.” He named the greatest commandment (”Love the Lord with all your heart . . .”) and summarized the rest.
Your biggest problem is that you equate Christianity with Islam. Christianity is the religion which shares the Good News that God loves us so much that He became “Emmanuel.” Our God has spent the time since the Fall providing rescue and reconciliation. He doesn’t require that we sacrifice ourselves or our children, much less anyone else. Instead, He sacrificed His Son for us.
Do the muslims you know wear headscarves or have their wives and daughters wear them? If not, how’s that go over at mosque?
“Do the muslims you know wear headscarves or have their wives and daughters wear them? If not, how’s that go over at mosque?”
Mosque? Until a few years ago my mother and sisters had to wear headscarves while IN CHURCH...same for Synogogues.
Are you claiming the moral high ground for Christianity because they had the headscarve thingy for woman for only 1500 years as opposed to 1530 for islam?
Thank you :-)
“Christianity is the religion which shares the Good News that God loves us so much...”
God’s love seems to be a little spotty. I’m not sure I would have wanted to be the recipient of his love while a Chanaanite, Hittite or Philistine in 1000bc, member of a germanic tribe in 700ad or an Incan (or any native “indian” in NA/SA for that matter) in 1500ad. God forbid if one were a slightly odd woman in Salem Mass around mid 1600.
Christianity in the “name of and for the greater glory of God” has committed millions of murders and uncountable tortures of innocent “children of God” in the last 1500 years, including woman and children. If anything, Christians should be at the forefront of understanding and helping guide islam out of their medieval ways...since they have the most experience at such matters.
I had a friend in grad school who was the head of the local muslim students association, and I would ask him about islam and all. He would assure me that the murderous ones were absolutely unsupported in the koran, but he never offered to show me from the koran how those murderers were breaking the rules.
This is the opportunity for those in the neighborhood to teach their neighbors exactly what the koran (and hence islam) is all about.
Thanks for the links and the quotes F15Eagle and patriot08.
It is the human interpretation of God's love and his word that is "spotty." You're confusing the failure of humans with some percieved failure of God.
"...I’m not sure I would have wanted to be the recipient of his love while a Chanaanite, Hittite or Philistine in 1000bc..."
You mention a few groups that the Israelites slew, but are you equating that with the 1400 year reign of terror that has been Islam? Isolated battles to preserve your faith is one thing, but inscribing your faith as a matter of perpetual military and political conquest, and living by that, is quite another.
"...member of a germanic tribe in 700ad or an Incan (or any native “indian” in NA/SA for that matter) in 1500ad. God forbid if one were a slightly odd woman in Salem Mass around mid 1600..."
With these dates, you now attribute human failings to some percieved failing of Jesus Christ's character. Show me one utterance of Jesus Christ that preached violence against those that didn't seek to follow him. I can show you plenty of utterances in the Koran speaking of it, encouraging it, teaching it, and demonstrating such things. "Christians" who have killed in the name of their God were not following God's instructions. Muslims who kill in the name of their allah ARE following his instructions. That's the difference between the two faiths, and why comparing them is really quite ridiculous.
Christianity in the “name of and for the greater glory of God” has committed millions of murders and uncountable tortures of innocent “children of God” in the last 1500 years, including woman and children.
Again, which of those "christians" were following the edicts of Jesus Christ?
If anything, Christians should be at the forefront of understanding and helping guide islam out of their medieval ways...since they have the most experience at such matters.
Which branch of Christianity today preaches the killing of people for not believing in Christianity? I've heard the stories of muslims defecating on bibles in churches in the middle east, and Jews burning New Testaments, and it doesn't bother me one bit. God will sort it all out. He's the judge, not me. I believe he's real, and if he's offended when someone does something to his book, then he is perfectly capable of dealing with it on his own terms, unlike the impotent, asinine God of Islam that needs men to do all his dirty work for him after each "offense" is committed against him. These people have killed each other rioting in anger over "offensive" cartoons poking fun at them and their "prophet." Show me the last time Christians rioted and killed each other because a TV show made fun of them or their God (which is quite commonplace in this society). Personally, I refuse to pay any respect to their Koran. I've read it, cover to cover, and not the "cleansed" version that was probably handed out on doorsteps, but the real thing. I consider it an evil and depraved book, especially when juxtaposed against "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and "love thy neighbor as thyself." I don't hate muslims, I love them as fellow human beings, but I hate Islam, and the Koran IS Islam. Muslims, at least in this nation, need to learn that we don't HAVE to offer the same respect to their book that MUST be offered in the nations they came from (if you want to keep breathing). I see no reason to act like we must treat their Koran with respect, or any other type of care. If you get a free Koran and wish to keep it and read it, that's up to you. Other's might enjoy hitting it with a baseball bat, using it to play a game of slow pitch softball. That's up to them. Neither action is illegal or immoral, or "bigoted."
If Larry Flynt was running around planting free "Hustlers" on doorsteps, would it be "bigoted" if people burned them? No? If not, can you explain to me how Hustler magazine is more dangerous than the Koran? IMO, the Koran is far more dangerous than Hustler magazine. Showing disdain for it is not bigoted. As far as I know, Larry Flynt doesn't advocate killing anyone as a continual matter of faith the way the Koran does, no matter how lewd his magazine might be.
Personally, I like that people want to make a public spectacle of destroying their free Korans. Muslims need to learn that in this nation, we can destroy all kinds of things as a matter of "statement" or "protest," including their precious Koran. That is our right. This is America, not the middle east. It seems many of them have a hard time accepting that. They certainly have a hard time accepting European traditions and laws, so what do the Europeans do? They bend over backwards to show how "tolerant" they are of immigrants who don't want to assimilate into European culture, and all the immigrants do is demand more "respect" for their transplanted culture and increase their cries of "offense" of every little thing that they say bothers them. Well, we're doing that here too, to a lesser extent, and imo, any action that stands up against Islam, including desecrating their "holy" book, is alright with me, as a matter of getting them to understand that their Koran is nothing special here, just like our bibles are nothing special here. If my bible can be desecrated, then so can their Koran. I'm for anything that helps them to understand this. Muslims are free to worship in this nation, and aren't hunted down and killed for worshipping the way they worship, but if they think their God and their Koran should have special rights and respect above any other God, they're nuts, and I don't mind if people want to show them they're nuts by publicly disrespecting their Koran, which Christians have become all to used to in this nation with their bibles. When federal endowments can pay an "artist" for throwing a crucifix into a jar of urine and calling it "art," then as far as I'm concerned, wrapping the koran in bacon is just as artful. If they get so easily offended by it, then maybe they need to think about seeking a God they can believe in, who they know will deal with "infidels" by his own judgement and methods. All I see with Islam is a bunch of whiney people that have no faith in their God to deal with us infidels in his own way. If we're all infidels, and THEIR God is THE God, then why don't they let HIM deal with us for being wrong? Why does their God need the help of feeble mortals to right the wrongs done to him? Because he's impotent and weak, and they have no real faith in him, or else they'd trust him to handle his own business.
When I finished reading my Koran, I highlighted all the violence, rape, murder, and plunder that was committed by their "holy messenger," then passed it on to freinds. This seemed like a good way to protest against it to me, and I know they gave it to their freinds when they were done with it, and so on, but there were times when I was reading it that I felt like desecrating it in a myraid of ways, and if others seek that outlet, I say good for them. It's called freedom of expression, and imo, there's a lot of things that can be expressed with that filthy book.
Sorry, I didn't mean for this to turn into such a long rant, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I see nothing bigoted about people doing whatever they want to a Koran. It's a book, not a person. Maybe once Islam starts showing as much respect for ALL human life as they do a book, then maybe less people will want to wrap it in bacon. But, once they do that, they won't be "good" muslims, according to the edicts of their Koran, which is the biggest difference between the koran and the Bible.
She's absolutely right.
Why is it all the do-gooders and hand-wringers never seem to want to criticize any country but America when it comes to human rights, the environment, etc. Hmmmm?
Can’t post link, try search for
Orthodox Jewish Youths burn New Testaments
Post 226 on the thread will probably interest you
Remember Rahab? She was a Canaanite, I believe. But because she saw what the Lord had done, she helped Joshua, whe and everyone in her house was saved, she became Joshua’s wife and was an ancestor of Jesus.
Go back and read Exodus and Joshua, again. It’s the people who are “spotty.”
The kings and the people of the nations that were destroyed - not to mention the people the Law was given to - would have seen the cloud in the daytime and the fire at night that accompanied the Israelites in the wilderness, and might have heard about the manna that fed them. Joshua 5 says that all the kings heard about the Jordan drying up so the Israelites could cross. Each group that were attacked had the opportunity to simply leave the Israelites alone and let them pass or settle in.
Even with the 6000 year history, the killings in the name of the Judeo-Christian tradition don’t come anywhere near the number of deaths from Stalin, Mao, Pol-Pot, and the anti-religion governments. The Christian examples you gave were opposed by the larger number of Christians in each case. As time has progressed, the idea that human beings are all made in the image of the Creator, endowed with rights by the Creator was seeded by the Christians. Slavery, usury, even colonialism couldn’t stand in the light of the idea that we are all children of G_d.
Again, it’s wrong to equate Islam, which only offers the hope, but no guarantee, of a place close to Mohamed in Paradise for those who kill for allah, or atheism, which results in utilitarian ethics with the rejection of paradise at all, with the G_d of the Judeo-Christian tradition offers reconciliation with Himself both in this life and after, by His sacrifice of Himself.
As to the headscarves - I’ve never heard of Christians who rape and kill (or did in the past) women who don’t cover their heads. Even the restrictions that did exist, were only in effect if the women chose to enter the building.
I goofed - the last few chapters of Deuteronomy tell the story about the attacks on the Israelites, and why the Canaanites, etc. were destroyed.
The “if G_d told me to kill” argument is a good example of the difference between Christianity and Islam. We have the example of Abraham and Isaac, when the Lord provided a sacrifice. We have the sacrifice of Jesus.
We have the scripture, quoted by Jesus, that the Lord hates sacrifice and desires justice and mercy.
A Christian society educated in the words of the New Testament would question anyone who said they were to kill in the name of the Lord. (In fact, most of us would have even tried to stop Abraham.) The muslims would donate money to the killer’s family after he died in the effort.
Yes.
I think we should be killing them wholesale. Not one of them is capable of being turned into a true ally. They'll stab us in the back the very first chance they get.
They've demonstrated that over, and over, and over again.
I don't want them as allies. I want them dead.
All of them.
L
And do you believe these statements of yours are living the Godly life Jesus taught?
I tried searching with your terms and still came up blank.
You miss my point. No where on these threads have I suported Islam or the actions of it’s most diabolical adherents.
The point was up until very recently Christians engaged in much the same kind of “evangelical” bloodletting to anyone who wouldn’t convert, and they did it “in the name of God”. The forced conversions in Europe, the Americas and Africa are good examples. The Inquisition in Spain and other areas are an example of what happened to anyone who
“disrespected” the religion. Tens of thousands of Protestant “reformers” were burned at the stake and the violence between Protestants and Catholics in North Ireland are reminiscent of the battles between Sunni and Shiite.
And they all did it because it was what they thought God wanted them to do. Who is right? Anyone can say “God commands me to do this”. I find it ironic that many Christians condemn islam for it’s barbaric acts (as they should be) while whitewashing and excusing their history.
But my point on this thread is simpler. Jesus said the greatest commandment was to love God, but the second most important was to love your neighbor. He also that if someone should strike you, to turn the other cheek. If someone should take your cloak, give him your coat. If they force you travel with them a mile, go two.
He also said he who violates the least of his commandments violates them all.
So how do these statements from Jesus square with some of th comments on this thread by so-called Christians?
They don’t. You’re not leading the kind of life Jesus told you to, you violate his commandments and you will surely be going to hell for it. So don’t tell me to go back and “read my bible”, because many of the people on this thread who profess to know it, don’t. Like many muslims they pick and choose the parts of it they agree with or which justifies their words and actions that day.
Neither have the moral high ground, only the arrogance to claim they do.
Having and showing disdain for a system of thought, or for an inanimate object like a book, is hardly going against the teachings of Jesus Christ, especially if that system and/or object condemns those who believe in Jesus Christ. Hating objects and systems is different than hating people. Jesus lost his temper in the temple when confronting the money changers. I guess he wasn’t practicing what he preached either...
We’ve all violated the commandments, Bob J. However, by believing that He gave His only Son, we are reconciled to G_d, by G_d — all He sees is our covering of Christ.
This is the promise of Christianity: *while* we were/are sinners — the Lord made atonement for us by His sacrifice.
You certainly seem to defend Islam, by your mentioning them in conjunction with naming the transgressions of Christians as transgressions of “Christianity.” Oddly, each of the incidents you mention are historical, and you’d be hard put to find justification for them among any Christian scholar alive today or (historically) esteemed by the scholars of today.
I don’t condemn Muslims for what their forbears did hundreds of years ago - only for supporting imams like that man in Arlington, Texas, for allowing CAIR to interfere in so much of our lives and I hate that women and little girls the world over are declared non-persons, raped and murdered with the support of of those same imams. The Koran is their authority for continuing to kill each other and innocent bystanders - most often without warning.
I am a fan of Peter Kreeft, a philosopher and Christian apologist. At a conference, someone asked him how to reconcile the sermon on the Mount with driving the money changers from the temple with such violence. Dr. Kreeft said it was simple: Jesus is not a pacifist. In defense of the helpless worshipers (which would have included women and Gentiles) and in order to both rebuke the priests who were involved in judging the sacrifices and allowing unfair exchange rates in the Court of the Gentiles, and impeding the proper use of the Temple, He used force.
However, He didn’t even kill a dove, much less blow up everyone in the Court.
The difference, again, is that we can show scripture and verse that would have repudiated killing, slavery and theft in the name of G_d. We have been told that our G_d hates sacrifice and violence against others, and that we are to defend the weak and rescue those being led to slaughter.
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