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To: purpleraine
You can make up what ever gets you through the day, but if you’re showering with a bunch of people you can bet some of them are homosexual.

I hate to ruin anyone's fantasy here, but group showers aren't exactly commonplace in the military anymore, outside of basic training. If you shower at the gym you go to, you're likely more exposed, so to speak, than the average troop is.

Again, this is not what the generals are worried about. There are sexual harassment mechanisms in the UCMJ that work as effectively on gay men as they do on straight men. What the leadership fears is that their system does not permit half measures. There is no 'tolerance' level, it's either on or off. An officer that said, "I tolerate the presence of women and minorities in the military, because I am legally required to, but I don't believe they should be here" in public may as well resign.

If gay rights are permitted in the military, being militantly (heh) pro-gay rights will be as mandatory as supporting women and minorities. Failure to aggressively adopt a pro-gay viewpoint will hurt promotions (which are centralized, and central boards bend to top pressure easily). Once pro-gay is the military party line, you cannot respect it as part of your job, but otherwise agree to disagree. You have to be 100% for it, publicly, or your career is over.

It may not start out that way, but within one generation of officers, the old guard will be brushed aside, and the new breed will throw their less ardently pro-gay colleagues under under the bus left, right and sideways, if it helps them get promoted. That's what the military leadership is worried about. Not flying HIV blood or gay shower scenes. They know what the system will become, and what effect it will have on the entire military culture.

68 posted on 07/08/2008 6:20:21 AM PDT by Steel Wolf ("There are moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate" Ibn Warraq)
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To: Steel Wolf
Gay rights in the military? I don't see this as a rights issue. I do see it as an issue of fairness and uniform discipline.

I think it's ridiculous that some guy can be seen holding hands with another guy off base and be discharged. If another soldier can hold hands with his wife or girl-friend and not be discharged, that would seem to be obvious discrimination in how the military carries out discipline.

Serving in the military is a responsibility, if people didn't volunteer, we'd have to have a draft.

My first comment on the thread was that there have been homos in the military forever, some distinguished themselves by their bravery and service. Somehow the military managed to survive that. So, what's the problem now?

69 posted on 07/08/2008 6:39:20 AM PDT by purpleraine
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To: Steel Wolf
If gay rights are permitted in the military, being militantly (heh) pro-gay rights will be as mandatory as supporting women and minorities. Failure to aggressively adopt a pro-gay viewpoint will hurt promotions (which are centralized, and central boards bend to top pressure easily). Once pro-gay is the military party line, you cannot respect it as part of your job, but otherwise agree to disagree. You have to be 100% for it, publicly, or your career is over.

It may not start out that way, but within one generation of officers, the old guard will be brushed aside, and the new breed will throw their less ardently pro-gay colleagues under under the bus left, right and sideways, if it helps them get promoted. That's what the military leadership is worried about. Not flying HIV blood or gay shower scenes. They know what the system will become, and what effect it will have on the entire military culture.

Excellent insight.

Thanks for posting.

72 posted on 07/08/2008 6:49:32 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism.)
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