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To: Diana in Wisconsin

You’ve got it backwards. We’re more depending on the government now, using their road system, begging them to drill for more oil, paying gas taxes they can raise, etc. If people moved back in to cities where they could walk or bike to work, or drive a short distance on local roads maintained by a more accountable local government, we’d be less dependent on government.

I’m no liberal, but I think high gas prices will be good in the long run. People have made poor choices that have put them in a rough situation, and now they’re paying for it. Nothing is for free, and nobody is entitled to anything. Time for people to grow up and take responsibility.


15 posted on 07/16/2008 6:07:59 AM PDT by MinnesotaLibertarian
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To: MinnesotaLibertarian

I think “poor choices” is a generalization. They are just “choices”. As you said in a previous post, if you choose to drive a truck that gets 10 mpg, and choose to live 50 miles away from your job, you have chosen to pay a large amount of money in gas costs, to dedicate a large amount of your time to commuting, and to put your faith in the government road system.

But that is only a “bad” choice if you can’t afford it. If you got a mortgage you couldn’t afford because you thought your house would go up in value and you thought you’d get a raise, if those things happen it’s a choice, if they don’t happen it was a bad choice.

If you live in the middle of nowhere because you assumed gas would always be $1 a gallon, and you can’t afford $4 a gallon, then you may have made a bad choice.

If you assume that taxpayers should foot the bill to widen the highways so you can get to work quicker, and think government should “do something” about the high gas prices so you can afford to drive your SUV, then you made a bad choice, and probably deserve being called on your “entitlement”.

But, as you said in your first post, people have a right to live where they want, and they have a right to work where they want, and so long as that choice doesn’t lead to burdening government or taxpayers when things go bad — well, we really ARE entitled to live in the middle of nowhere.


22 posted on 07/16/2008 6:17:43 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: MinnesotaLibertarian

“Time for people to grow up and take responsibility.”

I’m all for that. However, I also think they need to make their own mistakes along the way. Why allow Government to dictate where we live...which is just what they’re doing through higher fuel prices...caused in part by taxes on fuel, a zillion regulations that thwart drilling and exploration, hundreds of mandated fuel “blends” to keep the Enviros happy and our own foreign policies.

If anyone in Congress had a set, we’d have started creating even more of our own energy back in the 1980’s (or even before) when we had to suffer Carter telling us to turn down the thermo and put on a sweater!

My commute is 10 minutes. My husband works from home. I also sell books on-line from home and if we didn’t need the health insurance I’m currently providing through my job, I’d be back home full time in a heartbeat.

We can make a nice living from ‘out in the country.’ I don’t need Hippies, Enviros or the Government telling me what to do. They should kiss my @ss every day for the tax revenue I generate for them. Jerks.


27 posted on 07/16/2008 6:22:14 AM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: MinnesotaLibertarian
If people moved back in to cities where they could walk or bike to work, or drive a short distance on local roads maintained by a more accountable local government, we’d be less dependent on government.

What are you smoking?

Sorry, but you're wrong. How much does it cost to live in NYC? How much for outside the city, calculate the difference and that's how much you can afford to use to commute. Cities often come with much much higher taxes, fees, crime rates, noise, socialism, and other issues that most of us "conservatives" want nothing of.

You say you're no liberal, but see the up-side to higher gas prices? What would that be? A ruling-class elite and serfs? There will be no middle class left if the prices don't drop.

As for taking responsibility, you have no clue, most city folks don't, as government handles everything for you.

30 posted on 07/16/2008 6:24:34 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS
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To: MinnesotaLibertarian
If people moved back in to cities where they could walk or bike to work, or drive a short distance on local roads maintained by a more accountable local government,

You mean local governments like the Dallas City Council that spend their time arguing of the use of the term "Black Hole"?

33 posted on 07/16/2008 6:26:51 AM PDT by dfwgator ( This tag blank until football season.)
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To: MinnesotaLibertarian

I’m not begging the government to drill for more oil. I just want them to get the heck out of the way and let companies do it.


34 posted on 07/16/2008 6:26:56 AM PDT by mouse_35 (Vote Demorcrat for 2008! Lets do for Iraq what we did for Cambodia!!!)
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To: MinnesotaLibertarian
*** If people moved back in to cities where they could walk or bike to work, or drive a short distance on local roads maintained by a more accountable local government, we’d be less dependent on government.***


Guess you've never heard of the City of Chicago or of Cook County and the Board that runs it. Go ahead, read about it all in the Chicago Tribune or Chicago Sun-Times, the links can be found on Drudge. But be advised, it may affect that alternate universe, aka 'Happy Land', you apparently live in.

ps: But you better hurry while they're still available in English.

63 posted on 07/16/2008 7:01:18 AM PDT by Condor51 (I have guns in my nightstand because a Cop won't fit)
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To: MinnesotaLibertarian
"I’m no liberal,"

No, but you ARE an eco-weenie. Today's "energy crisis" is the end result of years of "eco-weenie" policies, preventing oil drilling, nuclear power plants, building refineries, and on an d on and on. ANY new source of energy (even solar and wind power) end up getting "bashed" by the eco-nutcase types (see Ted Kennedy's opposition to offshore wind power farms).

64 posted on 07/16/2008 7:05:47 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: MinnesotaLibertarian

“I’m no liberal...”

Oh, BS. Every post you have made on this thread is straight-up liberal, Marxist crap.

You have every right to live anywhere you want in this country. I will not be herded like cattle into your dirty city. I will not cram myself into a crowded bus or subway car to get to work everyday.

“Wasteful”? Typical liberal. What I pay for is mine, jerk and I’ll use it how I damn well please. My wife drives an hour to and from work. That’s where the money is but we do not want to live there. She does it to increase our quality of life.

These stories are largely made up by opponents of “sprawl” and Marxist environmentalists who want us all bunched up in cities, relying on government to get us where we need to go and limiting our travel.

You don’t have a damn clue what libertarianism is. You are just another bossy liberal, seemingly hell bent on taking all the pleasure out of life.


99 posted on 07/16/2008 7:51:40 AM PDT by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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To: MinnesotaLibertarian
If people moved back in to cities where they could walk or bike to work, or drive a short distance on local roads maintained by a more accountable local government, we’d be less dependent on government.

Have you looked at property tax rates in cities lately? Here in the Chattanooga area, it is common knowledge that if you move from the county into the city, your property tax will double. And even the county tacks on some additional sales tax above the state portion.

When I was living in Ohio, cities were allowed to, and did charge income tax. The last I heard, the income tax for the privelige of living in Parma, Ohio (home of the red traffic light) was 2.5% of ones' wages.

You would think that the economies of scales would make government services cheaper in the city, but that is more than exceeded by the greed of politicians. Just look at per-pupil spending in the schools compared to the actual graduation rate. Cleveland spends upwards of 12,000 per pupil per school year and yet has a much worse graduation rate (and much lower test scores) than many of the rural school districts that spend $7000-8000 per student per year.

I would say that the governments in large, dense cities are far less accountable than those of smaller cities, towns, and counties.

100 posted on 07/16/2008 7:52:20 AM PDT by meyer (Government is the problem, not the solution.)
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To: MinnesotaLibertarian

Large cities are generally more expensive and less accountable than smaller communities.

Just moving out of the city resulted in lower taxes, better schools, substantially better police response and a generally higher quality of life.

Technology will solve many of the short term problems we are facing. Telecommuting will reduce many people’s need to commute to the office. Higher gas prices are spurring development of more efficient cars, although we could be driving cars with better gas mileage if the government safety regulations hadn’t effectively banned tiny cars like the old GEO Metro.

I am puzzled by your contention that the government drills for oil. Oil companies want the opportunity to pay the government for the right to drill. They pay leases and then pay royalties on the oil they pump.


125 posted on 07/16/2008 8:45:30 AM PDT by MediaMole
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