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SHIFT: Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are a fraud (!?!)
dvice.com ^ | 7/31/2008 | By Charlie White

Posted on 08/01/2008 12:29:29 PM PDT by Red Badger

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To: alloysteel
Hydrogen can and is stored in steel containers at 2000 pounds/ per square inch pressure. It has to be the right steel, and the fittings the right fittings. The glass blower who is constructing critical apparatus out of fused quartz uses an oxyhydrogen torch to bring quartz to a softening temperature. Oxygen acetylene is hot enough, but the quartz doesn't like the chemistry. For certain critical maneuvers oxygen-carbon monoxide is used.

Another hydrogen use is in the atomic hydrogen device. Here hydrogen molecules are broken into atoms in an electric discharge. There is an enormous energy release when two hydrogen atoms recombine to make a molecule. Recombination is slow, but takes place vigorously on the target surfaces. It is important in cases when you don't want any oxygen around.

41 posted on 08/01/2008 2:28:50 PM PDT by dr huer
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To: mak5

One of the big problems is Life. Electrode/catalyst ‘poisoning’ is a big issue.


42 posted on 08/01/2008 2:48:31 PM PDT by expatpat
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To: LeGrande

We have a law against recycling nuclear waste.


43 posted on 08/01/2008 3:35:23 PM PDT by arthurus
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To: Red Badger

For review, comment. Later.


44 posted on 08/01/2008 5:02:27 PM PDT by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: arthurus
We have a law against recycling nuclear waste.

I once ran a Geiger counter over some radioactive waste and my granite counter top in my kitchen was twice as high : (

Didn't they also pass a law somewhere making PI = 3?

45 posted on 08/01/2008 5:11:47 PM PDT by LeGrande
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To: Rick.Donaldson

Most people still travel less than 40 miles to work. Some 25% of Americans travel further.


46 posted on 08/01/2008 5:22:13 PM PDT by Bogey78O (Don't call them jihadis. Call them irhabis. Tick them off, don't entertain their delusion.)
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To: LeGrande

I think I remember reading that in a third grade history book many years ago. I think Parliament debated it in the 1800s but didn’t do it.


47 posted on 08/01/2008 5:31:32 PM PDT by arthurus
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To: servantboy777
Your comment is uninformed, and rooted in liberal bias and ignorance.

The threshold of pealing off the Hydrogen to a usable state as a fuel is the entire problem. If it weren't for the amount of energy required to perform that task, the gas would be a viable alternative.

Oil companies make far less of a profit margin than a host of other company's but it has become politically convenient to demonize them. If their profit is so terrible, why haven't you first demonized Microsoft, Goggle, Yahoo, et. al. etc...?

The reason is that you are dishonest with the issue for the sake of making political points with those as ignorant as yourself.

Global Warming and the associated alleged greenhouse gasses attributed to the same are loosing their credibility as they were destined to. They form the fraudulent basis against the use of fossil fuels as a viable energy source.

The implication in your comment that profit is somehow evil makes the case that you have drunken the radical leftist koolade.

You liar. What ever you do for a living, be it labor for someone or the production of a product, you must, for what you input to engage in your business, gain a percentage more that puts you in the black. This is profit, therefore according to your comment you are evil and a hypocrite.

This is the dilemma your thought process has placed you in. Don't get mad at me for pointing out your ignorance and hypocrisy.

48 posted on 08/01/2008 6:32:42 PM PDT by PRO 1 (POX on posters who's political bent causes them to refuse to be confused by the FACTS!!!!!!)
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To: Rick.Donaldson
[ Nonsense. My wife and I both work at separate bases, and we BOTH travel in opposite directions, and we BOTH put more than 40 miles a day on our cars. ]

Then you would not be the ones I'm talking about.. Duuugh..

49 posted on 08/01/2008 6:55:06 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: Omedalus

A silly point. One might as well argue that there are no energy sources, matter itself being merely an energy storage medium.


50 posted on 08/01/2008 7:04:02 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: PRO 1
Wow, hit a soft spot did I?

You were just sittin there behind that monitor for just the right post so you could pull out your little bullhorn and sound off.

If another supports hydrogen energy research, there a liar and a dumbass.

Man oh man, get out from behind that monitor. Go have a beer and chill out.

Loser

51 posted on 08/01/2008 8:31:23 PM PDT by servantboy777
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To: servantboy777

I take it by your brat rant that you have no substantive response to the points I made.

I accept that you concede. That would make you the looser.

GAME............SET............MATCH..........

PRO 1

NEXT


52 posted on 08/01/2008 8:46:00 PM PDT by PRO 1 (POX on posters who's political bent causes them to refuse to be confused by the FACTS!!!!!!)
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To: Red Badger
Interesting. Also, a very amazing quote from the article is that “They subsequently quietly reported that they surpassed 100% efficiency, which would mean that the system is somehow harnessing environmental energy such as from the zero point or some other yet-to-be discovered phenomenon.”
53 posted on 08/02/2008 12:03:41 AM PDT by Bellflower (A Brand New Day Is Coming!)
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To: Red Badger

They call it fugitive emisssion.


54 posted on 08/02/2008 8:19:17 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Red Badger

That’s one of the standard characteristics of so many alternative fuel stories.

It looks good on the surface, but when you break down the real-world economics and energy expenditure to create it it quickly loses out to old, smelly, polluting gasoline.

Not even the pollution equation works out for hydrogen, because it takes electricity to create it and the electricity comes from polluting sources.

As Heinlein would say-TANSTAAFL!


55 posted on 08/02/2008 8:27:38 AM PDT by Brett66 (Where government advances, and it advances relentlessly , freedom is imperiled -Janice Rogers Brown)
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To: Lil'freeper

Ping


56 posted on 08/02/2008 8:29:44 AM PDT by big'ol_freeper (A vote for third party is a vote for nObama)
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To: Red Badger; blam; SunkenCiv
I went back to the site Red Badger addressed and watched the video. It was amazing. I also am taken about what the article said about zero point energy. Thought others might be interested. It is also note worthy that it looks like John Kanzius has discovered a possible cure for cancers.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:John_Kanzius_Produces_Hydrogen_from_Salt_Water_Using_Radio_Waves

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_point

57 posted on 08/03/2008 12:10:19 AM PDT by Bellflower (A Brand New Day Is Coming!)
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To: Bellflower; Red Badger

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/kanzius/index


58 posted on 08/03/2008 7:36:53 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_________________________Profile updated Friday, May 30, 2008)
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To: PRO 1

Not a debate, an opinion.

Sorry you felt offended fella, but that would be your problem. Not mine.

Game....set....match.

How sophomoric can you be. Grow up.


59 posted on 08/03/2008 3:32:13 PM PDT by servantboy777
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To: Shuttle Shucker

H2-Oh ping.


60 posted on 08/03/2008 9:55:10 PM PDT by anymouse
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