Posted on 08/08/2008 10:43:34 AM PDT by Jeff Head
Here are numerous pictures from various online Russian and Georgian news outlest of the conflict in Georgia where Russia has now intevened on the ground and in the air and invaded Georgia over the Ossetian Seperatists.
Russian tanks and vehicles moving toward and into Georgia
Russian aircraft attackintg Georgia positions
Georgian troops movingn toward the fighting
Burniing Georgian Armor
Georgian forces engaging seperatists
Those are not Georgian troops, That is a Bunch of MARINES!
I disagree. Just 2 AC-130 gunships using white phosphorus in the 60mm water-cooled gun barrels and a 150 Howitzer shell every 10 seconds would burn them and everything around them. It takes a few guys with shovels and about 8 garbage cans to empty out the spent shells when they land. That is how fast the shells fly out. In heaps.
Then you'd better ask yourself if America should go to war against Russia. I say no.
your #440, see my #337 link detailing and solidifying you assertion.
And others want us to become a mushy politicaly correct country like is happening in Europe. Not here.
If radical Islam gains a foothold here, do you have any idea of how many people will die?
It is better for a country to be feared than loved. No country is a sucker. That prevents wars.
This war started in 1801 with Muslims. The whole U.S. Navy blew up and burned down Tripoli and a long stretch of north Africa.
A precision guided thermobaric bomb would be best for that sort of thing.
“We can’t sit back and let Russia just overrun Georgia.” It the Russians try to take over more than Ossetia I would likely agree. If their actions are limited to Ossetia, I’d like to see the stats of who’s been given them more aid. From what I’ve gathered so far, Russia’s been giving them aid while Georgia’s been trying cutting off their electricity. [Not reliable sources yet.] In fact, I read in one [unreliable] place that Georgians were slaughtering random citizens in Ossetia. I don’t want to see another Bubba Bxxb Job like Kosovo.
Could be Georgian. They use he same aircraft. Or some of the same ones that is.
b) fake photographs
Could be stock photos, not taken recently
c) only "ground-attack" aircraft, not "fighters"
That too.
However *someone* has bombed Georgian facilities, and it's unlikely to have been the S. Ossetians.
Sometimes doing something *now* is better than doing the best thing sometime in the future. Besides, how do you know we *don't* have a plan for a situation such as this?
We need to act quickly though, whatever we plan on doing. Congress will be back from recess soon.
Considering that their national flag has 5 crosses, which resemble the crosses said to be used by the Crusaders, I'd say not very.
You think! I don't. Especially in that situation, where an appropriate bistatic geometry is going to be hard to come by. Plus, if necessary, the bombers can make use of terrain masking, which they are fully equipped to do.
Agreed. To paraphrase Bismarck: "Ossetia isn't worth the bones of a single American soldier."
Well, by themselves, sure, they aren't air to air platforms, although they can make a mess of a fast mover if they can get close enough to bring that big gun to bear. (The Su-25 is similarly vulnerable, and a lot more so to ground fire)
But they wouldn't be operating alone.
That will depend on what the Russians aims are. Do they just want to push the Georgians back from this one province, bloody their nose and send them and the other former satellites a message? Or, will they expand to other provinces and move deeper into georgia with the purpose of deposing the current government and installing their own puppet and then, OBTW, being in defacto control of that oil line?
We can help, and I believe it has to be forthright, but also very measured and careful. IMHO, we should communicate directly, without fanfare but in unmistakable terms that we are serious about providing whatever logistical, material, and G2 support to the Gerogians that we can and that the situation is likely to be extremely costly for the Russians as long as they remain on soveriegn Georgian soil.
We have the satellite and the electronic capability to stand off from Georgia and help in this manner. We have the capability to provide all types of material support in trade.
I do not believe we are prepared or that it would be wise, short of Russians killing American soldiers in Georgia, to put any boots on the ground or combat aircraft in the air.
But I would watch the Ukraine and other satellite states in that regard, because they may provide more support.
This is a message the Russians are sending. it is a message to all the former block states, it is a message to Europe, and it is a message to US.
Part of it is Russian frustration over the move of so many of their former "satellite" states towards NATO and the EU and them not being able to stop it. Part of it is the old Russuan desire for lareg buffers between their soil and any large, capable nation's influence on their borders, another big part of it is oil and that major pipelie that Georgia has crossing it.
I do believe that we have to respond strongly to this message or the Russians will be emboldened on other fronts.
If the Russians bloody the Georgian's nose in that one Provence, push the Georgians back, and then pull back themselves...there is a chance that things can cool down.
But if the Russians expand this to other provinces and keep moving deeper into Gerogia with any aim to depose the Georgian government, install their own puppet, and gain defact contro over that oil, then you will see increasing aid of all sorts going to Georgia from a number of countries to try and prevent that.
It is a very dangerous situation, but one that the Russians have clearly thought out (and were prepared for BTW, the movement of their armor and large numbers of troops didn't happen in a few hours or a couple of days...they have been planning this) and one where they are risking a high stakes military gambit under the auspice of "protecting" their "people" who live in Georgia. Sounds all the world like Hitler and the Sudetenland in 1938 in that regard.
We have to be firm and we have to be measured and careful at the same time...but we do need to respond strongly and with more than words. Words is exactly what Putin is counting on.
No. Our goal should be to help Georgia smash the Russians. Humiliate Putin again, thus forcing him into even more stupid repression at home. That’ll further the demographic bleeding as people flee him and his corrupt cronies. It’ll speed up by years the collapse of the Russian state. The world will be a much better place once that happens.
We should loan Georgia some Raptors and A-10’s. The sooner those Russian tanks get turned into scrap the better. That’s really all Russian tanks are good for besides murdering civilians — being turned into burning wrecks in the Sinai or the Golan Heights or Kuwait or south of Baghdad or Grozny or Slovenia. The Russians (and their little butcher buddies the Serbs) have polluted humanity for too long with their constant support for tyranny. Like the Muslims, it’s time for them to die off.
Good post. Pipelines are important. Perhaps price of oil will rise due to this?
Actually there was a short period, after the break up of the Soviet Union, but the "new revolution", like the old one, was co-opted by the communists. Not an exact parallel, but some similarity.
I know its heresy here to take a different opinion on the A-10 against the SU-25, and all Russian equipment is junk ;) but I might disagree with you. The Frog Foot has been enhanced as far as I know. There is the Su-25k and the Su-28. It can carry more payload than the Wart Hog I believe, and it goes 975KM/605mph on the deck. Each platform has its limitations.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/su25/specs.html
But my thoughts were more to if we actually entered the conflict on Russia’s back door. I dont underestimate them.
That's so true, be they individuals or nations. Just a couple of weeks ago I got a big hug from a former bully who I've known since the late 50s. He became my friend after I stood up to him. He's a big guy, but so am I. It's just that I am, or was, a mild mannered nerdy type, and he's not exactly bookish, although he's not stupid either.
We had to beat the living crap out of Japan, within the living memory of many people in both countries. But now they are one of our more solid allies in many arenas.
Can you say, 'if you don't have a basement, you might want to start digging'? Or at least think about it. (I'm too close to a prime target area to bother. I work on one in fact. So I won't bother with a fall out shelter.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.