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To: Alia
So what do you make of the data in post #45 of this thread?

Russia has had close ties with both regions since they declared their independence (and before) from Georgia in 1992. There are Russian populations in both ares, so I would not be surprised if they are given Russian passports.

There has been tension between Georgia and Russia for years. You would have to ask the Georgians why they decided to disrupt the status-qua that existed for the past sixteen years.

I haven't researched this yet for myself. But if this is true, this has the earmarks of an operation, by Russia, against Georgia.

Here's an article that has a some what different take on it...

Leaving aside the question of Russian interference (see below), the larger concern has been that Georgia might be tempted to use its newfound military prowess to resolve domestic conflicts by force.

As Sergei Shamba, the foreign affairs minister of Abkhazia, told me in 2006: “The Georgians are euphoric because they have been equipped, trained, that they have gained military experience in Iraq. It feeds this revanchist mood… How can South Ossetia be demilitarized, when all of Georgia is bristling with weaponry, and it’s only an hour’s ride by tank from Tbilisi to Tskhinvali?”

One of the U.S. military trainers put it to me a bit more bluntly. “We’re giving them the knife,” he said. “Will they use it?”


126 posted on 08/10/2008 6:24:45 PM PDT by F-117A (Mr. Bush, Condi, have someone read UN Resolution 1244 to you!!!)
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To: F-117A

“There are Russian populations in both ares, so I would not be surprised if they are given Russian passports.”

You forgot the qualifier so I’ll complete the sentence for you. “There are few Russian populations in both areas, so it is surprising that there are so many passports.”

They have been giving the Persian ethnic population passports for years. Bid deal. It is sovereign terriory of Georgia. Russia now has boxed themselves in. They must totally conquer Georgia and lose total credibility or leave. When they leave, the NATO membership process will be sped up and both Ukrain and Georgia will be members of NATO.

When that happens Russia will do exactly what they did with Serbia. Nothing.


128 posted on 08/10/2008 6:35:48 PM PDT by rbmillerjr ("bigger government means constricting freedom"....................RWR)
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To: F-117A
Thank you.

Leaving aside the question of Russian interference (see below), the larger concern has been that Georgia might be tempted to use its newfound military prowess to resolve domestic conflicts by force.

Sounds like someone is saying... "because we are concerned about it, this justifies Russia's seizing Georgia by force, and murdering 2,000 of its citizens."

137 posted on 08/10/2008 7:33:32 PM PDT by Alia
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To: F-117A
Yeah (grin), I'm still digging around. Yes, tension between Russia and Georgia has been going on for years. Here's what I've gotten from reading a zillion articles, thus far.

When Georgia broke away from USSR, established itself, Ossetia was Georgian. However, there was also an Ossetian speaking population. Georgia invoked a universal "language" - Georgian. Ossetia felt discriminated against. And despite the two language/cultures intermarrying and generally getting along, a Nationalist Front for So Ossetia arose in the name of and led by the influential South Ossetian Popular Front (Ademon Nykhas) in 1988. The Georgian language rule was passed in 1989.

In retaliation, So Ossetian regional council requested to be upgraded to "autonomous republic".

In 1990, Ossetians proclaimed South Ossetia a Soviet Democratic Republic, fully sovereign within the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR). (Basically declaring itself as in UNION WITH RUSSIA.)

1990. Ossetia refused to participate in Georgia elections; and began having their own. Georgia countered with ruling "regional parties" to be illegal and ruling the SO elections, illegal.

A peace-keeping force got set up, which included Russia.

I'll let Wiki finish the rest of the story:

In June 2004, tensions began to rise as the Georgian authorities strengthened their efforts against smuggling in the region.[23] Hostage takings, shootouts and occasional bombings left dozens dead and wounded. A ceasefire deal was reached on August 13 though it was repeatedly violated. Presently the situation is tense with war escalating. Moscow and Tskhinvali viewed the recent Georgian military build-up with concern.

The Georgian government protests against the continually increasing Russian economic and political presence in the region and against the uncontrolled military of the South Ossetian side. It also considers the peacekeeping force to be non-neutral and demanded its replacement.[24] This criticism was supported, for example, by Richard Lugar[25], however on October 5, 2006, Javier Solana, the High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy of the European Union, ruled out the possibility of replacing the Russian peacekeepers with the EU force.[26] EU South Caucasus envoy Peter Semneby admitted later that "Russia's actions in the Georgia spy row have damaged its credibility as a neutral peacekeeper in the EU's Black Sea neighbourhood."[27]

---end snips.

So, a So Ossetian Socialist/Nationalist front arises to assert its independence from Georgia and instead for Russia.

And we are now to trust everything coming out of the mouths of Ossetians in re who started what?

142 posted on 08/10/2008 8:44:08 PM PDT by Alia
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To: F-117A
How should the Georgians have responded to attacks from Ossetia?
I think they overplayed their hands, but Georgia did not start this. The Russian run South Ossetian regime did, on orders from Moscow.
149 posted on 08/10/2008 10:34:15 PM PDT by rmlew (Liberalism is like AIDS; it destroys the natural defenses of a nation or civilization.)
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