Posted on 08/12/2008 2:10:58 AM PDT by Flashlight
But they will pull back. Are you saying that they are staying in complete occupation? I’m not condoning their actions, but they will pull back. They are certainly not going into Tiblisi.
Look I was pretty clear with the comment about Finlandization.
They don’t need to take every inch of the country to get the fascist control they want.
No, they aren’t going into the capital today. The question is do they achieve their goals to control the country with their overbearing threat and how will they attempt to subvert the energy supplies going through Georgia.
That is most definitely part of their goal.
Never,Ever Trust A Russian!!!
Their Word Is No Good!!!
At this point they seem to be in control of 3/4 of Georgia.
Tbilisi is cut-off,,,
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2063042/posts
RxR bridge blown,,,
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2062949/posts
They keep takin’ a bite at a time till they are KILLED!!!
~~~DEATH TO RUSSIA!!!~~~
Das`Va’da`nia Komm`erad Bljad’!!!
Now hold on a second. Are you trying to tell me that the former head of the KGB can not be trusted. Why? Because his own wife called him a vampire?
C’mon, it’s just a small country he needed. Think Sudentenland.
Right now people are trying to figure out if the Russians will commence following through on their ceasefire agreement.
Have they taken on step toward it yet, or are they still blowing s*)_ up?
I understand the points that you put forward and I welcome the debate. It is your view on the events, but I still don’t agree with your analysis.
The Russians are not going into Tbilisi period. People talk of Russians wanting regime change in Georgia. There is absolutley no support in Georgia for Russia. If Russia was to invade completely and put in a puppet government who would support it? Russia would have to spend years fighting Georgian civil unrest and uprisings, not to mention armed resistance. The Russians would be run ragged.
The Russians will pull out. They are not after either contolling oil supplies or gaining control over the Georgian government or people. What you are seeing is simply the Russians humiliating the Georgian President and his forces.
The Russians haven’t a hope in hells chance of controlling any oil pipe line and the Pentagon know it. The Pentagon already knows that Russia is not in any position with its disposition of forces to hold and retain territory in Georgia proper. If the Pentagon thought that then all it has to to is move U.S. troops up to secure the pipe line. There isn’t a hope in hells chance of Russian forces engaging U.S. forces and both sides know it.
Sorry, I thought English was the language of the forum? If you would like to express your views to me in English then it would be ever so helpful. Thanks!
I welcome the debate too Tommyjo but you certainly must realize the irony of our discussing this over the course of days in this thread.
Look at the thread’s headline. It’s now over 5 days old and counting.
The Russians didn’t go into Helsinki either did they?
To achieve their political ends, decapitating the government does not require Russia to enter Tblisi at all. They just cut the country in half and let it fester like an open wound until their “peace” demands are met.
How can something that obvious escape you?
My sense is that your perspective on the limited objectives of the Russian bear is based more on your current understanding of the situation, not the historical one.
Many of us here are doing exactly that combined with the geopolitical exercise. Putin’s KGB demeanor and his KGB cohorts down in Georgia are not acting for a limited gain. That’s not how they operate.
And I expect that will continue to come to the fore. Five days since Russia “halts military action” in Georgia, I expect this is not over. Not by a long shot.
Now hold on a second. Are you trying to tell me that the former head of the KGB can not be trusted. Why? Because his own wife called him a vampire?
C’mon, it’s just a small country he needed. Think Sudentenland.
Right now people are trying to figure out if the Russians will commence following through on their ceasefire agreement.
Have they taken on step toward it yet, or are they still blowing s*)_ up?
~~~
Last I heard was the main RxR bridge,,,(East~West)
Moving east of Poti,,,
Diggin’ in around Gori,,,
Tanks/BMPs/Troops/etc. STILL comin’ through that damn tunnel
into Georgia,,,(FOX),,,
Typical Russian BS on the “pull-out”,,,
Sudentenland was the first thing that came to mind,,,
Ivan is diggin’ in,,,
They ain’t goin’ nowhere,,,
Russia now holds bout 2/3 of Georgia,,,
I see that ol’ “Commie~Jo” is still trollin’ the threads,,,
Whinin’ to the mods bout “personal attacks”,,,
Rules Ya’ Know!!!
Russia gets a pass on Rules from their fellow Commie!!!
It sez it’s from England so it’s startin’ to make sense!!!
This sentence pretty much sums you up as a moron.
You need to grow up.
BEIJING, China (CNN) -- Four members of a Christian group from the United States are refusing to leave an airport in China after authorities confiscated their 300 Bibles, the group's director said Monday. The four members of Vision Beyond Borders -- based in Sheridan, Wyoming -- arrived in the southwestern Chinese city of Kunming on Sunday. Customs officials discovered the Bibles during an X-ray scan of their luggage, said Pat Klein, director of the group, which supplies Bibles and other Christian material to people in China and other countries. Under Chinese law, it is illegal to bring printed religious material into the country if it exceeds the amount for personal use. The group distributes the Bibles through a local shop owner in Kunming, according to Klein.
Russian Christians "purge" gay cruise waters published Tuesday, June 26, 2007
More than 200 Orthodox and right-wing Russians, including a fiercely anti-gay member of parliament, sailed an icon-bedecked ship down the Moscow River on Sunday to cleanse the waters after a gay cruise took the same route the night before, the Interfax news agency reported. Participants hired a ship and decorated it with church banners, icons, Russian imperial flags and their motto, "We are Russian, God is with us."
"Our great Orthodox capital is in spiritual vacuum and experiences ideological aggression from the West. So our aim was to demonstrate that the Russian people's spiritual and moral ideals are alive and will be so forever," Yury Ageschev, coordinator of the Union of Orthodox Brotherhoods, told Interfax.
It is a simple statement of act. The Russians are going through the Georgian countryside stealing everything they can with value. They are even stealing toilet seats.
Russians are nothing but liars and thieves.
Blowback From Bear-Baiting 08/15/2008
Mikheil Saakashvili's decision to use the opening of the Olympic Games to cover Georgia's invasion of its breakaway province of South Ossetia must rank in stupidity with Gamal Abdel-Nasser's decision to close the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships.
Nasser's blunder cost him the Sinai in the Six-Day War. Saakashvili's blunder probably means permanent loss of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
After shelling and attacking what he claims is his own country, killing scores of his own Ossetian citizens and sending tens of thousands fleeing into Russia, Saakashvili's army was whipped back into Georgia in 48 hours.
Vladimir Putin took the opportunity to kick the Georgian army out of Abkhazia, as well, to bomb Tbilisi and to seize Gori, birthplace of Stalin.
Reveling in his status as an intimate of George Bush, Dick Cheney and John McCain, and America's lone democratic ally in the Caucasus, Saakashvili thought he could get away with a lightning coup and present the world with a fait accompli.
Mikheil did not reckon on the rage or resolve of the Bear.
American charges of Russian aggression ring hollow. Georgia started this fight -- Russia finished it. People who start wars don't get to decide how and when they end.
Russia's response was "disproportionate" and "brutal," wailed Bush.
True. But did we not authorize Israel to bomb Lebanon for 35 days in response to a border skirmish where several Israel soldiers were killed and two captured? Was that not many times more "disproportionate"?
Russia has invaded a sovereign country, railed Bush. But did not the United States bomb Serbia for 78 days and invade to force it to surrender a province, Kosovo, to which Serbia had a far greater historic claim than Georgia had to Abkhazia or South Ossetia, both of which prefer Moscow to Tbilisi?
Is not Western hypocrisy astonishing?
When the Soviet Union broke into 15 nations, we celebrated. When Slovenia, Croatia, Macedonia, Bosnia, Montenegro and Kosovo broke from Serbia, we rejoiced. Why, then, the indignation when two provinces, whose peoples are ethnically separate from Georgians and who fought for their independence, should succeed in breaking away?
Are secessions and the dissolution of nations laudable only when they advance the agenda of the neocons, many of who viscerally detest Russia?
That Putin took the occasion of Saakashvili's provocative and stupid stunt to administer an extra dose of punishment is undeniable. But is not Russian anger understandable? For years the West has rubbed Russia's nose in her Cold War defeat and treated her like Weimar Germany.
When Moscow pulled the Red Army out of Europe, closed its bases in Cuba, dissolved the evil empire, let the Soviet Union break up into 15 states, and sought friendship and alliance with the United States, what did we do?
American carpetbaggers colluded with Muscovite Scalawags to loot the Russian nation. Breaking a pledge to Mikhail Gorbachev, we moved our military alliance into Eastern Europe, then onto Russia's doorstep. Six Warsaw Pact nations and three former republics of the Soviet Union are now NATO members.
Bush, Cheney and McCain have pushed to bring Ukraine and Georgia into NATO. This would require the United States to go to war with Russia over Stalin's birthplace and who has sovereignty over the Crimean Peninsula and Sebastopol, traditional home of Russia's Black Sea fleet.
When did these become U.S. vital interests, justifying war with Russia?
The United States unilaterally abrogated the Anti-Ballistic Missile treaty because our technology was superior, then planned to site anti-missile defenses in Poland and the Czech Republic to defend against Iranian missiles, though Iran has no ICBMs and no atomic bombs. A Russian counter-offer to have us together put an anti-missile system in Azerbaijan was rejected out of hand.
We built a Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline from Azerbaijan through Georgia to Turkey to cut Russia out. Then we helped dump over regimes friendly to Moscow with democratic "revolutions" in Ukraine and Georgia, and tried to repeat it in Belarus.
Americans have many fine qualities. A capacity to see ourselves as others see us is not high among them.
Imagine a world that never knew Ronald Reagan, where Europe had opted out of the Cold War after Moscow installed those SS-20 missiles east of the Elbe. And Europe had abandoned NATO, told us to go home and become subservient to Moscow.
How would we have reacted if Moscow had brought Western Europe into the Warsaw Pact, established bases in Mexico and Panama, put missile defense radars and rockets in Cuba, and joined with China to build pipelines to transfer Mexican and Venezuelan oil to Pacific ports for shipment to Asia? And cut us out? If there were Russian and Chinese advisers training Latin American armies, the way we are in the former Soviet republics, how would we react? Would we look with bemusement on such Russian behavior?
For a decade, some of us have warned about the folly of getting into Russia's space and getting into Russia's face. The chickens of democratic imperialism have now come home to roost -- in Tbilisi. --------- end
Read this carefully, digest it, and take it back to History 101, wherever you're attending college.
Since you're a Russian, you probably mis-transcribed it. Pat Buchanan hasn't been a particularly sane source of knowledge in quite a while in any case. Russians can't be trusted as an information source, since they are all liars.
i love you
I feel sorry for these guys.
The Rissian thugs are going to “persuade” them to become traitors to their country and confess that Georgia has committed “war” crimes against Ossetians.
And the west will react like the Pope did to Philip the Fair’s interrogation of the Templars.
With four months still in office, you would think the non-entity in Washingtonw would do SOMETHING to help these people. They WANT Democracy - unlike his Arab Islamic buddies.
What part of Moscow do you live in? Your English is pretty good.
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