Posted on 08/22/2008 3:27:12 AM PDT by Man50D
I was trying to determine how sincere you were with your question in my previous response. I can tell that you are sincere by your responses to mine and others.
My opinion is that others have answered this better than I could (I’ve even learned some things from them). I would read the Bible for a better understanding, but I caution people when they’re reading it, to keep in mind who it was written to, the context of the times, and the possibility that since you aren’t a practicing Jew of those times, you may not understand all of the Old Testament, or a “Galatian” or “Corinthian”, etc., you may not fully understand all of the New Testament.
I would also suggest reading “History of the Jewish Wars” by Josephus for a look at Preterism, and www.tentmaker.org for studying the possibility of universal atonement (related to the concept of Jubilee in the Old Testament). Both of those ideas have helped me a lot. Your mileage may vary. Good luck to you!
Thanks!
I would like to know why the likes of Hannity etc and the likes of the networks at least Fox don’t go to these weirdo homo parades and film them
film them put them on the TV for all to see their weird sick behaviour and then people the normal people amongst us will see them for that they really are.
Makes you wonder.
Q. My son asked me why Jesus had to suffer for our sins. Why couldn't God excuse our sins just by our belief in Christ without Jesus suffering such a horrible death? A. Before talking about the suffering of Jesus, it is important to establish from the Scriptures why it was necessary for Christ to suffer. The Scriptures teach that the penalty of sin is death (Rom. 6:23; Ez. 18:20). Since God is holy and just and cannot condone sin, someone had to pay the price, otherwise God would not be just and holy. Full satisfaction is made by suffering the penalty, and that satisfaction was made when God sent His only Son to suffer and to die in the place of humankind. As the Scriptures teach "The Lord laid on Him the iniquity of us all" (Is. 5:6). Christ bore our sins in His body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24), having been made a curse for us (Gal. 3:13). As Paul puts it in Romans 3:25: "God presented Him as a sacrifice of atonement..." And as the writer to Hebrews explains, since "without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins," Christ became our perfect sacrifice "offered once to bear the sins of many....(9:22,28). To explain this precious message to a child, it might be helpful to use an illustration from everyday life involving the necessity of punishment for something done wrong and the payment of a penalty (no example is perfect, but a simple illustration like this may help: paying a fine for a traffic violation: someone might pay the fine for us to release us from punishment). |
The point of this posting is not a discussion of essential Christian doctrine, it’s about the freedom to practice peaceable religion and free speech.
However, since you asked it, I’ll try to answer your question:
The Bible’s New Testament teaches that Jesus’ mission was to die in our place. How is that possible?
God is understood as being perfectly righteous or holy AND perfectly loving. Totally uncompromising and perfect...and yet caring for very imperfect compromised human beings. The problem is, how can the perfect Holy God, have an eternal fellowship with sinful, dying (or really spiritually dead) human beings?
The Old Testament gives a set of laws, summarizing everyones responsibility to obey God in a perfect way....and yet none of us can perfectly obey them. We need to love God with all of our being, and love our neighbor as ourselves...perfectly. Of course every human falls short.
The Old Testament also teaches “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin.” (Heb. 9:22) Before Jesus came, animal sacrifices were made repeatedly—at the express command of God—in order to (temporarily) forgive inevitable sin. The idea of a “scape goat” is what is here, in that one creature could somehow bear the just penalty of another. Of course the animal sacrifices didn’t really work in and of themselves, as a lamb cannot really substitute for a person—as humanity must be represented by a human being, not an animal. (Notice I said represented, that is key....)
It would specifically take a morally perfect person who owed no penalty or debt for sin of his own. Unfortunately then as now, there are no such perfect persons. Also, even if there were—that person would not have the ability to actually take on all the penalty (an eternity in hell), as he would only be a finite person. Hence only God Himself could handle that penalty. So in order for anyone to avoid paying their own debt (and spending eternity separated from God), a substitute to pay that debt would have to be:
1- fully Human
2- fully God
Hence the doctrine that utterly uniquely Jesus is fully Human and fully God (notice, not half-God, and half-human)—and was born that way, by a virgin conception, is an essential to Christian belief. Christians also believe in an eternal Trinity of God—and that God-the-Son has existed forever along with God-the-Father, and God-the-Spirit (3 persons but one in essence, and only one God...) but this is not the place to try to explain the details of the holy Trinity—just to say in the human Jesus, God chose to be born in a manger in Bethlehem.
When someone believes in Jesus, that He has paid the debt of their sins on the cross 2000 years ago, then they have an unexplainable union with Jesus, and full forgiveness for all their sins—and the good deeds of His life cover them....and assure them a place in Heaven—and a changed (and good & loving) life until then on this earth.
If this sounds a lot like legal or banking terms, then I am making my point. The idea of the good news of Christianity is that Jesus paid a debt He did not owe, because each of us have a debt we cannot pay—and He loved us enough to do that.
Of course the good news doesn’t end with the payment of our debt by Jesus dying in our place on the cross. Jesus proved He was the God-Man, and able to pay this “cosmic debt” by physically rising from the dead after 3 days.
Jesus is understood as humanity’s REPRESENTATIVE on the cross—he died, and then came back to life, so that spiritually (and eventually physically too) we would not have to ever die.
Romans 4:25 summarizes this saying: “He was delivered over to death for our sins, and raised to life for our justification.”
If yours was a sincere question, I’ve given a sincere answer. It’s basic Christian doctrine—the kind in America (until lately) we’ve always been totally free to express.
Ping for my #66 posting above.
I loved Smedley64’s #41 response too, as quite a bit shorter than mine, as after all, brevity is the soul of wit.
Rudder’s question is the essential that ties Christianity to ancient Judaism. As I said to an orthodox Jew once, I rely on blood sacrifice—just like the ancient Jews did...(of course I quickly added, that that one sacrifice was done 2000 years ago too!)
Just for clarity sake, I’m a 3rd year seminary student, and what I described above is considered the classic “satisfaction” understanding of the Atonement—first explained in detail by St. Anselm in the 11th Century.
Thanks, again.
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