Obama Picks Old White Man as Running Mate

MensNewsDaily.com ^ | August 23, 2008 | Roger F. Gay

[Pan_Yan]

On the social policy front, Obama is a staunch Reaganite

How so?

[RogerFGay]

When a point isn't clear, I always wonder why. Reagan managed to pull disparate groups together for what has generally been referred to as “welfare reform” and the two parties have fought over credit ever since. If you’re a Democrat, you probably think “ending welfare as we know it” was Bill Clinton’s idea. ... etc.

You didn't get anything from that?

[syriacus]

What a coincidence!

This just appeared on FR: "It was a typical coffee-klatch style appearance before a small group. "

from the thread: Joe Biden's 1988 gaffe and his explanation: ''I exaggerate when I'm angry''

[RogerFGay]

Yep, quite a coincidence - or maybe it’s the kind of thing one thinks of in relation to these guys. It comes automatically from the subconscious.

[RetSignman]

Inspired by Rush Limbaugh.

[syriacus]

maybe it’s the kind of thing one thinks of in relation to these guys. It comes automatically from the subconscious.

Great insight!

[cynwoody]

I haven’t checked many dictionaries.

Websites use many versions.
21,100 google hits for “coffee clatch”
42,100 for “coffee klatsch”
42,600 for “kaffee klatsch”
77,700 for “coffee klatch”
667,000 for “kaffeeklatsch/Kaffeeklatsch”

Well, there you go. One of the neat things about the internet is, it enables you to be your own lexicographer.

[cynwoody]

But then again... what doesn’t confuse Paris Hilton?

Paris Hilton's energy plan is better than anything Obama bin Biden have come up with. See for yourself (Paris responds to McCain's celebrity ad):

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/64ad536a6d

[Pan_Yan]

I'm no expert on them, but I have a basic understanding of the welfare reforms of the 80's and 90's. I don't see how they apply to Senator Obama, he wasn't there.

He has the most liberal voting record in the Senate. He ran as a hard socialist in the primaries. He began to espouse centerist positions as soon as he locked up the nomination, but I don't see any of those as genuine.

On the social policy front, Obama is a staunch Reaganite; causing more than a little confusion about which party is presenting the more “conservative” candidate.

Senator McCain is very liberal in lots of uncomfortable ways, but I don't think I can name a subject where he could possibly be to the left of Senator Obama. Please provide some documentation for this statement.

[RogerFGay]

Please provide some documentation for this statement.

Let's start with your own statement: "He has the most liberal voting record in the Senate. He ran as a hard socialist in the primaries." Keep in mind there's lots of confusion on the subject - and please be sure you have read the entire article before continuing - there are more hints all the way through: I even tried to be clearer with some after publication edits in the original at Obama Picks Old White Man as Running Mate

Here's a speech by Obama - if the connection between what he's saying and what I'm saying isn't clear - please note comment in the last paragraph of the article: Barack Obama’s success with it – so far – on the campaign trail is solidly linked to the flowery nature of his oratory – so few people know what he’s talking about.

The topic itself is one that I've covered at length in a large number of articles, starting in 2002. Most of them have also been posted here at FR. If you have more questions, I might supply additional lengths to articles. But you should also look at the Democratic Party Platform.

[RogerFGay]

OK - not "lengths to articles" - I meant links to articles. And besides articles for the general public since 2002, I've been a researcher involved in the subject since 1989, submitted testimony to Congress on the subject several times, served as an expert witness in a major precedent setting federal case ... I'm more than a little familiar with the topic.

[syriacus]

One of the neat things about the internet is, it enables you to be your own lexicographer.

It's wonderful!

[RogerFGay]

One of the basics that causes lots of confusion is the belief that the political parties and candidates generally relate to political ideology. Ideology is more a presentation technique than anything to do with actual political intent. For the most part, both parties are playing the same game - trying to push the most money through the system and maximizing profit. At times, now more than ever, it just amounts to theft from taxpayers / US Government. If you're in Congress - you have the power to write laws that allow this to happen without any risk.

"Welfare reform" is a good example. Reagan brought disparate groups together - not by convincing them that he had a better ideology - but by adding lots and lots of federal money to pay everybody off who is involved in it. I don't mean money for the poor - I mean a bunch of people getting filthy stinking rich from welfare reform - at taxpayer expense - and without any public benefit.

The history since - starting with Clinton - has been to continually increase the bredth and cost of "welfare reform." Whether the explanation is "a helping hand" or "forcing personal responsibility" the outcome is just the same. It's just two different sales pitches - aimed at different audiences - for the same product.

As you should have noticed in Obama's speech - he uses both "a helping hand" and "forcing personal responsibility" - covering both ends in his sales pitch. He's trying to get support from the largest audience he can - so he's playing it both ways. But it's still just more building on Reagan's "welfare reform."

[Grampa Dave]

It's Biden: So much for 'Hope and Change'

Double the Arrogance -- Double the Fun! It's Obama-BinBiden 2008

The rat's dream team of hate America and capitalism, the Islamofascist Narcissistic Liar and an Old White Honky Narcissistic Plagiarist/Liar $inator, the #1 and #3 Liberal voters in the $inate, or Karl Rove strikes again:

[Pan_Yan]

Unfortunately you are correct about the difference between ideology and action. The Anti-Federalists were correct in their fears about congress simply writing the rules to expand their own powers.

Sometimes the mechanics for implementing policy are lost when candidates are evaluated, and voters only see the quotes and / or hard voting record.

But we need some criteria for evaluating candidates. We try and piece together a picture of what a candidate might actually push as their agenda based on what scraps we have available. We don't necessarily look at or care what the mechanisms for implementation are.

Everyone uses different criteria to evaluate candidates based their own litmus tests and they all have their own code phrases that they listen for. This is where you reference Obama playing both sides of the spectrum in his speech, which I did listen to, painfully.

I see what you were referencing in your original article, though I don't think too many people would make the great leap of logic required to call Senator Obama a staunch Reaganite on social policy. A liberal running hard to the center after wrapping up the primaries does not invoke Reagan's image with me. Enough time has passed that most comparisons to Reagan invoke his philosophy and ideology, not his mechanisms for directing legislation.

[RogerFGay]

I see what you were referencing in your original article, though I don't think too many people would make the great leap of logic required to call Senator Obama a staunch Reaganite on social policy.

Most people do struggle with it. But as a journalist, it doesn't stop me from saying it. If we had better coverage of politics to begin with ....

The best way to evaluate what these candiates stand for is to look at how screwed up things have become. It's not all George Bush's fault by a long shot (as some would have us believe). It's been a bipartisan party and they're running us into the ground.

[syriacus]

Here's that word coffeeklatch again. Used by the AP

Michelle is the Obama who fits in a small room. She does the coffeeklatch to Barack's coliseum.

Michelle 'the Closer' Obama ready to open

[RogerFGay]

Wow, you’re really keeping track of this. There are jobs for people with a wealth of such knowledge. It’s good for writers of all kinds and some of the people who work with them, including speech writers, etc. Always good to have a strong vocabulary of course.

[syriacus]

Wow, you’re really keeping track of this.

It just keeps popping up on FR. I only notice it because it was such an "in" term when I was a pre-teen.

It's obvious that you are in the forefront of a new trend.

[RogerFGay]

It's obvious that you are in the forefront of a new trend.

Something more to be proud of. (LOL)