Posted on 08/25/2008 7:26:38 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
Is this another departure from your previous stance? You used to go on about how “limited” Heliocentrists didn't account for the gravity of the entire galaxy and the outer planets but that the superior (and you think Biblical for some reason as yet unexplained) Geocentric model was not limited by this ‘blindness’.
Do I have to find all your previous posts extolling the virtue of Geocentricism to show that this is a new stance, or will you admit to it?
Whatdaya know....
“I don’t know how old the universe is. And since I’ve never created one, I guess I can’t provide a hypothesis for what it would look like when it was finished”
Light travels at a set speed, a light year is the length a beam of light travels in one year, so if the universe all sprung into existence only 6000 years old, at the end of the first 1000 years we would only see the stars 1000 light years away and closer, light from the others would not have had time to reach us yet. Likewise at the end of the first 2000 years we would only see the stars 2000 light years away and closer and so on and so on up to today. If the young earther’s claims were true, you would only see stars whose distance in light years was equal or less than the age of the earth.
Now you could say that along with creating a star 100 million light years away, God also create a 100 million light year long beam of light between it and earth creating the illusion that the universe is much older, but I don’t believe that God is an illusionist or deciever.
As for Adam, who says he was created as an adult, seems to me he was very much like a child, unable to really comprehend good from evil etc. etc. We have no idea how long he and Eve were in the Garden before the Fall either.
It is false to portray it as either young earth creationism or evolution. If you look at the Hebrew, the word used as ‘day’ carries symbolic meaning, and the same Hebrew word was used to identify ages, such as the span of a person’s life (say Jacob) being referred to as the day of Jacob. I see Genesis describing stages of the creation, not literal days, but longer periods of time that were dominated by one task.
BTW: the stages of the creation as described in Genesis map very nicely to what an observer on the surface of the earth would see in fast forward as the earth formed according to the current theories of science. When you take ‘day’ as symbolic, astrophysics CONFIRMS the sequence of events in Genesis.
==at the end of the first 1000 years we would only see the stars 1000 light years away...
Your understanding is based on a misunderstanding. Dr. Humphreys’ Creationist cosmology demonstrates that it is theoretically possible for the earth to be thousands of years old and the outer reaches of the universe to be billions of years old, and yet owe their existence to the same creation event. For more, you might want to consult the link contained in the following reply:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2068044/posts?page=156#156
1) Please show me where the speed of light has changed in the last 50 years. I know you’ll cite differences based on available tech at the time prior than 50 years.
2) You never answered my question as to why a Type 1A supernova are pretty much uniform from location to location. Very rarely is anything different between them. Yet the speed of light when they occurred all varied WILDLY. EXPONENTIALLY so even.
3) The pat answer I usually get for the time/distance discrepancy is “gravitational time dilation”. AS if those three words actually answer anything. Since you replied to my post citing that, I tried to follow up with you. Since you don’t want to tackle that, then we’ll skip it.
That is, the reply and link can be found in #156.
Oh brother. This is high school physics and you messed it up so bad.
Gravity doesn’t dilate time, it can bend space-time in a way that will case a beam of light to change direction slightly (hence the existence of gravitational lenses in space) but it doesn’t dilate time.
To dilate time you need to travel at a VERY high speed. As I recall, the effects are unnoticeable to humans until you get to something like 90% of the speed of light, which we have never gotten anywhere close to. Also, by travelling at such a high speed, you dilate time in such a way as to make it pass SLOWER for the speeding observer, not faster. For the non-speeding observer there would be a very noticable red or blue shift in the light coming from the speeding object depending on whether it is speeding away or towards you, but the observed speed of the light would be the same, it is a universal constant.
In short there is no way to appeal to any of this stuff as a way to explain light from galaxy millions of light years away getting here in so short a time as 6000 years.
The speed of light used to measure the distance of a star is the upper limit of what speed is possible by the laws of physics, so if there is any dialation, then it would just make it take LONGER for the light to reach us.
Par for the course.
Typical argument to discredit God. Creating the universe as it basically is is not for the purposes of deceit, but functionality. If it's going to be inhabitable, it has to be a certain way. If that gives the appearance of age, that's going to happen.
As for Adam, who says he was created as an adult, seems to me he was very much like a child, unable to really comprehend good from evil etc. etc.
Innocence only implies youth in our corrupted world. Not knowing good from evil may be childlike but is no reflection of physical maturity.
Farmers Almanac. They quote Sunrise and Sunset times that are very accurate.
The Jewish Historian Jesephus estimate the same date of creation, and that was 1800 years before Darby. If one was to calculate the age of the earth based on the Geneology given in Genesis, you come up with around 4000 BC for earths creation.
Darby plagiarized Margarette McDonald, but did not originate the millineal belief. The bible does teach a literal 1000 year period of Messiah's reign (Rev 20).
==Gravity doesn’t dilate time, it can bend space-time in a way that will case a beam of light to change direction slightly (hence the existence of gravitational lenses in space) but it doesn’t dilate time.
WRONG.
http://hyperspace.wikia.com/wiki/Gravitational_time_dilation
My am I not surprised that you share his ignorance of GTD?
Well, that all depends on your perspective. :)
I've heard it explained as the parallel of an airplane taking off, flying west, and arriving at the "same time" that it left - local time.
See, I told you that you wouldn't understand.
Equally valid means just that.
What part of "entirely equivalent from a physical point of view" don't you understand?
Ah, 'necessitates'. Nice qualification. Deliberate of course.
Nothing will meet the 'necessitate' standard in your mind.
Do you actually believe these 'defined realities' that you construct?
That's still a true statement. You don't.
More evidence that you don't understand what I'm telling you.
“Water: The Raw Material of Creation
The strength of a dipole field's source is called its magnetic moment. It is proportional to the amount of current circulating in the source and the area encircled by the current. The dipole magnetic moment of the earth today is 7.9 x 1022 joules per Tesla (1 J/T = 1 Ampere-meter2 = 1000 Gauss-cm3).3,4
To calculate the magnetic moment of a planet at creation, we must know the original material. In the previous article I presented Scriptural evidence that God originally created the Earth as a sphere of pure water. One of the Scriptures is the last part of 2 Peter 3:5 (NASB): “. . . and the earth was formed out of water and by water.” Shortly after that, God must have transformed much of the water into other matter, such as iron, silicon, minerals, and rock.
I know of no explicit Scripture which says that God created the heavenly bodies in the same way He did the Earth. But there is a hint, perhaps. The Hebrew word translated “heavens” in Genesis 1 consists of two other Hebrew words which mean “there, waters.”5 Let us assume that God created the Sun, Moon, and planets as water, which He then transformed.”
In 2 Peter 3:5 the word “sunistao” (#4921)means to stand by or as most translations have it, ‘stand out of’. Only in figurative sense does it indicate to constitute.
In Genesis chapter one the Hebrew word, “shamayim (#8064), contrary to the Dr., means, ‘firmament, celestial realm, sky above’. Nothing to do with water.
Humphreys assumes that Mercury was once water and assumes on the basis of that assumption that most of the hydrogen being aligned in such a way to carry electricity around the great Mercury water droplet and produce a magnetic field. And he thinks he finds support for this in Scripture which he misunderstands (see above).
Batting a thousand? Not even a bat boy!
The idea of putting us in a gravitational well while the rest of the universe ages for billions of years, and yet to have both occur within the space of the exact same creation week, boggles the mind. But it was the part about God doing this so we could see the stars on day six that really took my breath away. I’m not saying that’s how it really unfolded, but something incredible along those lines actually did happen...which makes for an amazing thought! We truly serve an AWESOME GOD!
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