Posted on 08/27/2008 2:26:50 PM PDT by april15Bendovr
Well, it's a pretty easy sell, if you believe that freedom includes the right to make bad decisions. A lot of Americans believe in morality more than they believe in freedom, and that's a point that reasonable people can differ on.
More to the point, you can make a reasonable case that drugs are bad, but you can't make a reasonable case that drug prohibition and its associated evils are a net gain for America or the world.
I don't really care what Soros' opinion on it is. I don't care if his favorite color is blue. I also like blue. I'm not going to not like blue to spite Soros, even if he has malicious, malevolent reasons for his blue-loving ways.
No, I’m not in favor of Soros funding it. It’s a local issue and shouldn’t be influenced by outside interests. I against the ONDCP committing federal resources to opposing these initiatives, too. About the only difference I see is that Soros is using his own money.
If you had to speculate, WHY do you think Soros is spending so much money to get pot legalized?
And it is idiots like you try to bury the facts and convince people that pot really isn’t that bad. All because, for selfish reasons, you want to be able to get high.”
I say pot isn't that bad because it isn't that bad. I don't want to smoke pot. If I wanted to I would just do it. I did it plenty when I was younger. I smoked it nearly everyday for years in high school, college and law school, and even after that for a while. I got too busy though and we started having kids and I really just didn't have time for it anymore. I liked it less and less anyway as the years went on. Once in a blue moon I might smoke some when everyone is in town for a class reunion or something like that, and on those occasions I usually come away remembering why I don't care for it. For me it just makes social situations more awkward. It's kind of fun but not so much that I'd want to take it up again on a regular basis.
But it's not that bad. There are a few people who let it become too important to them. I don't think though that everytime a smart person who smokes pot doesn't make something out of his life that pot is to blame. Since the beginning of time we've had wastrels who don't make much out of their lives. I think the “partying” is often just a symptom of something else going on deep down inside of them. And I bet it's very likely that your friend and your brother would have been screw ups even if pot didn't exist. The marijuana use was just an outward manifestation of the problems they had inside. It was just one more tool they'd use to help them procrastinate and avoid getting up and getting going at life.
It's not harmless. It can hurt you. It can slow you down. It's really a bad idea to do it all the time. Plenty of people do just fine as pot smokers though. Most will do it for a while and grow out of that stage in their lives without causing themselves any harm. Others will continue to smoke it but do so in moderation such that it does not adversely affect them. And then there are a few who will do it morning noon and night and let it interfere with them getting things done that need to be done.
Personally, I don't think a whole lot more people would smoke marijuana if it was legal. And I think that most of those really prone to problems with it probably already smoke it. Screwed up people, people with poor mental health, tend to gravitate toward substance abuse. Their lives tend to be miserable and they try to feel better by “partying.” We all know that doesn't really work and that it will more often than not make things a worse, but a lot of people seem to have to learn that lesson the hard way. These people I think are probably least likely to worry about the small chance of getting caught and getting in trouble. If they want to smoke pot, they're going to smoke it. Those very few who want to smoke pot today but won't because it's illegal probably aren't the waste case loser types with that overpowering need to be inebriated all the time or they'd already be doing it.
If marijuana was legal, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I wouldn't be arguing that it is not that bad. If the topic came up I'd probably just comment on what a waste of time I thought it was. We'd talk about it like people talk about cigarettes. People on this forum who argue that marijuana ought to be legal for the most part are not saying that it's good for you and that everyone ought to be doing it. They're saying it's not bad enough to warrant the futile war against it. It's a battle not worth fighting. Marijuana is cheap and widely available despite decades of trying to make it go away. Millions and millions of people still use it, regardless of the law. We're spinning our wheels fighting against it, spending a fortune and accomplishing nothing good. In fact we're really just causing more harm than good. We're allowing organized crime to rake in billions and billions of dollars every year. We're turning a large segment of our population against the police. We're driving a large segment of our population into the underworld where they will do business with criminals who will in many cases offer them much more dangerous drugs, drugs that are far more likely to make them burdens on society than a little beer or a little weed. We're making traffic in these other drugs easier because marijuana is so prolific, it's so widely used and the distribution networks for it so vast and entrenched that they are perfect for distributing other far worse drugs. We're saddling a lot of unlucky young people with criminal records that will make them less likely to make it in legitimate society. The costs to our society are enormous. And yes you could say the costs of marijuana use are large too but I would say that we are already bearing those costs. More than half of all young people try marijuana and a lot continue to use it at least for a few years despite the laws against it. The laws against it really deter no one, or almost no one. How many people are out there just wishing marijuana would be legalized so they could finally smoke it? Not many.
It's not that marijuana isn't bad, it's just not bad enough to say, “damn the consequences we're going to keep up this losing battle no matter what it costs us.” Some things are that bad. Murder, rape, etc. But not marijuana. We'd be better off if we just legalized it and regulated it similar to the way we regulate alcohol.
better yet, they’ll regulate it to the point they’ll make it so expensive as to be unobtainable by legal means anyway.
I dunno? Because he's tired of spending money buying puppies to throw in the furnace?
Soros sees himself as an enlightened, progressive philanthropist to the world. In his kooky world vision, he sees his role as one that should weaken strong states in order to let his liberal ideas flourish, which is why he subsidizes all kinds of liberal pet projects around the world. Weird, but it's his money.
He's also a bitter enemy of Vladimir Putin.
I mention that because the enemy of my enemy can be my friend. While I'm ready to oppose 95% of what George Soros is up to, I'm more than happy to let him do some things I like. For instance, to royally piss off the Russian government, or to fund de-criminalization efforts in Massachusates.
I was happy to let JAM and AQI fight in the streets of Baghdad. I don't care what their motives were. I care about results.
And is this why he's spending so much money to legalize drugs?
Agreed!
Legalization has become such a political issue that people forget how much it can hurt people — unintended consequences.
Much like issue with Gays and the transmission of AIDS. Chances of catching AIDS are greatly increased if you live that lifestyle. However, for the longest time, people refused to be critical of the lifestyle because it was their “right.” All the while, more were catching it and spreading it and more people died because of the lies and misinformation.
For some reason he's latched onto that as a pet cause. I don't think 400k is a lot of money to him, and he's known to be eccentric. I think his brain just went a little wobbly in that direction. He doesn't seem to have any particular allegiance to anyone but himself, and he's 78 years old.
I don't see him getting any particular gain out of it short term, and he's too old to still be around to get anything out of it long term.
Bad analogy. Drugs and specifically pot, enable and encourage a person’s “weakness.”
Unfortunately, exposure can happen at a time when we are most vulnerable. Drugs allow the person to avoid confronting the tough issues in life. Yes, life can be tough. But it is necessary for us to mature and move on to the next level and on to a better life.
Aside from being bored with wrapping puppies in American flags and throwing them into a blast furnace?
You can ascribe whatever theory you have to it. I don't think the man is Satan. I think he's generally wrong, that he'd love to put a liberal Democrat in office, that he'd love for America to be more like Europe, and that he spends a lot of money or attention on causes that I'm opposed to. So, he's basically like the 45% of the people in our country voting for Obama, but with a ten figure bank account.
Does there really have to be a deep, dark reason why people do things, aside from them thinking it's a good idea? I don't care if Soros thinks that legalizing drugs is the fast track to destroying American civilization. If that's what he thinks, he's a bonehead, he's wrong, and he's funding his own error.
But since we're fishing in the mind of this decrepit old Hungarian fool, what do you think his reasons are? Clearly, your nefarious-o-meter is pegged out.
A completely absurd statement. If anything, pot is a symptom, if you will, of "weakness," as is alcohol, lottery tickets, video games, reality television shows---any sort of "guilty pleasure" you care to name.
Give a person an excuse on which to hang their failings, and they'll do so every time. Why a conservative would want to encourage such a passing of the blame buck is beyond me. Conservatism with personal responsibility is meaningless---but you seem to be an advocate of it.
Providing support and guidance for people at these times are what family and friends are for. Government is not your family and it is not your friend.
Me too — smoked it when I was young. And to this day, I wonder if has adversely affected me.
Odd things happen when you play around with the brain and its chemistry.
Interesting (at least for me): Initially, I had a tolerance for pot. It had little effect on me. Heard that this is pretty common. Then after several times smoking it, I began to feel the effects. As if my brain chemistry had to adjust to it. I stopped smoking for a couple of years and like you, at a party tried it — imediately got high. Whatever it did to my brain was permanent.
“I think the “partying” is often just a symptom of something else going on deep down inside of them.”
As I said in another thread, illegal drugs enable a person’s weakness. And they enable the enabling of someone weakness. We all have tough times in life. Just hope that “mother’s little helper” isn’t there when you are at your most vulnerable.
“Personally, I don’t think a whole lot more people would smoke marijuana if it was legal.”
Unfortunately, kids will be exposed to it more if it were legalized (IMO). When we were underage, whenever we needed or wanted some beer or hard liquor we knew where and who to get it from. It was pretty easy to get. Getting a “bag” was a lot more difficult. Mostly because it was illegal but it also had a stigma. My brother and friend drank lots of beers with me.
Unfortunately... in the real world family aren’t always there.
Unfortunately you can't substitute government for family and friends for just them. If you give the government the authority to do it for them, you give them the authority to do it for all of us. Unless you truly have their best interest at heart you will easily do more harm than good. Family and friends usually do. Government - not so much if at all.
These drugs are “designed” for optimal effect. Either through selection by humans or by design by humans.
A dependency is created that is very difficult, if not impossible, to resist for some.
When a person is exposed, willpower and choice is gone. To use a cliche, it is the drugs choosing and not the person.
Choice is the cornerstone of Libertarian beliefs. How can a person make a “choice” when all free will is gone.
No they don't have a choice. They are a prisoner.
Unfortunately, I tend to agree with you. “Tend.”
What help is there for the person who has no one? Or their parents and family are also addicts?
Originally, the Church and local community would help in these situations.
Somehow, we survive. It is a tough life lesson, though. And usually costs us years of life and hurts our health.
However, as “designer” drugs are “improved,” that may not be as easy.
If we keep following the same methodology we have been, the government will eventually claim the only way they can protect us from these "designer drugs" is to simply assume control of everything we ingest.
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