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To: Flavius

Really big gas tank, or really short range.


8 posted on 09/29/2008 8:12:15 PM PDT by Tarpon (Barrack Obama will ban all the guns he has the votes for ...)
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To: Tarpon

Exactly. It takes a lot, lot, lot of horsepower to go mach 5 and horsepower takes fuel. If I remember correctly, that is the speed of the X15 which had one million HP and could fly for a minute or two.

Me thinks the Ruskies and Indies have hired Bagdhad Bob for their PR releases.


52 posted on 09/29/2008 9:38:44 PM PDT by biff
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To: MCH; Tarpon; EagleUSA; max americana; Jack Black; webstersII; cruise_missile; RaceBannon
Only if you’re shooting after it with something typically slower that needs to catch up with it. Of course if you’re shooting at it on the receiving end (the whole point - it will be coming AT you not away from you), an intercept projectile can calculate the projected intercept point regardless of how fast it’s going. So, ridiculous claim.

You must really not know that much about the last 2 decades of supersonic cruise missile developments. The only major difference in Brahmos II is that it is supposed to be hyper-sonic (mach 5) ...and note that this is a second iteration. There is already a version called Brahmos I that is in active service with India and Russia, and which has a range of almost 300 km and travels at around Mach 2.8 (making it the fastest cruise missile). The major difference with the Brahmos II is that it will be twice as fast (note that the US is also working on hypersonic missiles for various purposes).

Anyways, on some of the comments posted:

First of all it does not require a 'really big gas tank' nor have 'really short range.' Once a scramjet missile (which Brahmos II will potentially be) or a ramjet missile (which Brahmos I currently is) is fired, it quickly reaches supersonic speed using a rocket system, and then the ramjet (in Brahmos I ...in Brahmos II probably a scramjet) takes over. That is a very fuel-efficient mode of transportation.

Another comment was that it can be intercepted since it is coming towards the target. First of all there is nothing that CANNOT be intercepted, however the problem with supersonic incoming missiles is that even if you get it, it will be moving at such a speed that the debris will still hit the (say) ship, damaging soft targets like communication masts (think of it as a super-sized shotgun scatter effect). That is still better than having an actual missile impact, but it can still damage most ships.

Another comment was on how lasers are faster ....yes, they are faster. The main problem is the targeting system and the fact that it may require the missile to be painted by the laser. That is difficult when the missile is flying less than 15 feet, and has started terminal jinking moves. This is the MAIN reason why there has been a gradual movement away from Phalanx type gattling-gun anti-missile systems for point-defense (that strive to shoot down incoming missiles with high cyclic rates) towards point-defense anti-missile missile based systems (which instead of firing bullets fire short-range missiles for point-defense purposes). A Phalanx type system wouldn't be the best for supersonic missiles (much less hypersonic ones) due to range considerations, the fact that doctrine for supersonic missiles normally calls for a swarm attack, and also due to bullets still leaving enough of the missile for the sheer velocity to still carry it to the ship.

Going forward one will probably see more of such missile types, but mostly in the hands of the US (working on similar projects), Russia and India, maybe south Africa (being seriously lobbied by the Russians/Indians), and maybe a smattering of other countries. It is doubtful that countries like Iran would get them, even though they want them, due to greater political linkage between the US and India, and historical relations between Israel and India. India and Russia can veto the other over which country the Brahmos I can be sold to, and it is highly doubtful that the Brahmos II (when/if it comes out) will actually be put up for export.

Anyways, supersonic missiles have been around for quite some time. Range and fuel are not an issue, although they do have shorter range than sub-sonic missiles. They can be intercepted (even the B II can be intercepted once one peels away the hyperbole), but it is very hard to do so, the reaction time is exceedingly small (by the time the radar first detects it you will have seconds for your computers to come up with a firing solution and take it out before it is so close that even a successful intercept will still cripple the ship). An important thing people are also forgetting is that India is a friendly nation to the US, and even if Russia may not have any qualms selling the missile to (say) Iran (which would love it due to what it could do in the straits) or China, that would not happen due to the veto power India has.

Finally, a hit from a hypersonic missile (even one without an active warhead) would dump so much kinetic energy on the target that the results would still be catastrophic. The following picture is of a frigate that was hit during a test with the Brahmos I (the supersonic Mach 2.8 version). I'd say the damage is pretty conclusive ....especially for ONE missile. Generally swarm attacks are the protocol.


92 posted on 10/02/2008 3:43:22 AM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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