Posted on 11/18/2008 7:26:37 PM PST by Delacon
#2 is flat out our government's fault...and us. They control the money but we sure as hell let them throw it at us.
#3 and #4 are GM's own damn fault. Nobody else.
#5 Not GM's fault that it happened but sure as hell their fault how they were unprepaired for it.
Do we really want the government and the automakers in bed together to solve this with a bailout?
SAVE THE UAW, uh, uh, um, ah, um, I mean, um uh, GM!
- The One!
GM has 7,000 dealers. toyota has around 1,500. That’s another area of overhead that will be hard to reverse
So what DOES the unqualified One have to say about the bailout?
I um, uh, uh, uh, um, can someone, um um, uh, call the, um, um, call Hillery or Bill, um, um....
He’s been awfully quiet about this issue. Must be nuance.
1. Unions
2. Unions
3. Unions
4. Unions
5. Piss Poor Cars
Companies don’t want to take responsibility for their own failures.
Individuals don’t want to take responsibility for their own failures.
What else is new.
“3. Legacy Costs”
...when the Japanese started building plants here they could hire young workers who were healthy...some of them are getting older now....others will be eligible to retire in a decade or so...eventually they’re going to encounter the legacy costs of an aging workforce themselves.
The arrogant executives who ran the Big Three were always fighting with the unions, but at the same time they were in bed with them. Like the old steel mills, they thought they could just keep raising prices forever. They were wrong.
Going from the 80s to the 90s there was a huge gain in the overall quality of American cars. I don’t see that as a serious problem; the problem is pricing their products out of the real world.
It depends what kind of retirement benefits you provide. If it’s an open-ended commitment to keep raising retirement pay forever, and these guarantees are unfunded, then one way or another you’ll run into trouble.
If it’s vested in the workers, then it’s THEIR responsibility to save up for retirement.
Having said that, I don’t know what kind of commitments Toyota is making. But I suspect they have a lot better sense.
Nope. They built their factories in free to work states and put everyone on 401Ks. They wont have the same legacy costs.
What's the consensus here at FR on buying GM stock, which ended the day at $3.09 a share? Is it a bargain, or is it an exercise in flushing money down the terlet?
GM is hurt by Congress all the time . . .CAFE standards . . Energy Policy on drilling . . self imposed Oil Supply Crisis.
If Congress BAILS OUT GM . . . will Congress Pass laws anymore that negatively Impact the Auto Industry ?
Tis an interesting Confliction for Congressional Greenies and Corporate Ownership of GM by Congress.
GM is hurt by Congress all the time . . .CAFE standards . . Energy Policy on drilling . . self imposed Oil Supply Crisis.
If Congress BAILS OUT GM . . . will Congress Pass laws anymore that negatively Impact the Auto Industry ?
Tis an interesting Confliction for Congressional Greenies and Corporate Ownership of GM by Congress.
Sounds like a perfect candidate for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy to me.
GM can’t make money they have sold more cars in the last decade than ever.
#1 is an instant replay of the seventies after the first oil shocks. Only it wasn't SUV's it was big gas-guzzling sedans and overpowered muscle cars. Don't blame the government, the Japanese saw this coming. The big three were too arrogant to see that slick marketing and brand loyalty wouldn't save them.
When Americans voted with their pocketbooks Detroit, the einsteins of the car business, were caught flatfooted. They fought back, with garbage. Remember Chrysler's K-Car anyone? How about the Pacer? Gremlin?Yeccch. As bad as the Aztec.
Meanwhile Datsun gave us the 240-Z, ushering in the era of dominance by Japan.
like freddie mac, they expect to be bailed out because they are a protected institution. So they felt they could make any mistake and still get away with it.
don’t, even if they survive the current shareholds will likely get nothing.
if you want to speculate on gm recovering, try to find a supplier that is viable without them but will do better if gm survives.
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