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Was Leo Donofrio's case fast tracked at SCOTUS today?!? Emergency review like Bush V. Gore?
Natural Born Citizen Blog - Leo Donofrio ^ | 11-20-2008 | Leo C. Donofrio

Posted on 11/20/2008 8:10:27 PM PST by Frantzie

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Comment #221 Removed by Moderator

To: Frantzie; Red Steel

Thanks


222 posted on 11/20/2008 11:34:03 PM PST by Finalapproach29er (Democrats still want to get Pres. Bush and/or VP Cheney; there might be show trials in Feb09)
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To: RaiderRose

“Hey there! My hubby won’t let me buy any weapons (3 young sons—it makes him nervous)”

http://www.buyasafe.com/Gun-Safes-s/28.htm


223 posted on 11/20/2008 11:41:10 PM PST by DaveTesla (You can fool some of the people some of the time......)
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To: NDman

They covered that .... knowing that they were all born British citizens. Their language specifies citizenship for candidates who came AFTER themselves in a certain time period.


224 posted on 11/20/2008 11:41:43 PM PST by STARWISE (They (Dims) think of this WOT as Bush's war, not America's war-RichardMiniter, respected OBL author)
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To: NDman
On the day you became a member here, November 11, 2008, you asked the question: "We also need to ask yourself this if Obama wasn’t a citizen do you think he could actually make it this far??"

I would ask you why he has hired two law firms to fight requests to see his BC if it were legit?
Welcome to FR... we have spell check available, sadly it doesn't overcome poor grammar

225 posted on 11/20/2008 11:46:10 PM PST by The Brush
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To: oprahstheantichrist; All

This is Leo's rationale from a few days back (sorry for reposting it if you've already seen it)

I've been conducting some deep research on the issue, confirming most if not all that Leo's puts forth. Read below and keep it in this context: "In any event, the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute (e.g., Calero and EVEN McCain) does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional purposes -- U.S. State Dept FAM, Vol. 7).

From Leo:
Don't be distracted by the birth certificate and Indonesia issues.  They are irrelevant to Senator Obama's ineligibility to be President.  Since Barack Obama's father was a Citizen of Kenya and therefore subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom at the time of Senator Obama's birth, then Senator Obama was a British Citizen "at birth", just like the Framers of the Constitution, and therefore, even if he were to produce an original birth certificate proving he were born on US soil, he still wouldn't be eligible to be President. 

The Framers of the Constitution, at the time of their birth, were also British Citizens and that's why the Framers declared that, while they were Citizens of the United States, they themselves were not "natural born Citizens".  Hence their inclusion of the grandfather clause in Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the Office of President;

     That's it right there.  (Emphasis added.)

The Framers wanted to make themselves eligible to be President, but they didn't want future generations to be Governed by a Commander In Chief who had split loyalty to another Country.  The Framers were comfortable making an exception for themselves.  They did, after all, create the Constitution.  But they were not comfortable with the possibility of future generations of Presidents being born under the jurisdiction of Foreign Powers, especially Great Britain and its monarchy, who the Framers and Colonists fought so hard in the American Revolution to be free of.

The Framers declared themselves not eligible to be President as "natural born Citizens", so they wrote the grandfather clause in for the limited exception of allowing themselves to be eligible to the Presidency in the early formative years of our infant nation.  

But nobody alive today can claim eligibility to be President under the grandfather clause since nobody alive today was a citizen of the US at the time the Constitution was adopted. The Framers distinguished between "natural born Citizens" and all other "Citizens".  And that's why it's important to note the 14th Amendment only confers the title of "Citizen", not "natural born Citizen".  The Framers were Citizens, but they weren't natural born Citizens.  They put the stigma of not being natural born Citizens on themselves in the Constitution and they are the ones who wrote the Document. 

Since the the Framers didn't consider themselves to have been "natural born Citizens" due to their having been subject to British jurisdiction at their birth, then Senator Obama, having also been subject to British jurisdiction at the time of his birth, also cannot be considered a "natural born Citizen" of the United States.

__________________________________________________________

Barack Obama's official web site, Fight The Smears, admits he was a British Citizen at birth.  At the very bottom of the section of his web site that shows an alleged official Certification Of Live Birth, the web site lists the following information and link thereto:

FactCheck.org Clarifies Barack’s Citizenship

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”

That is a direct admission Barack Obama was a British citizen "at birth".  

My law suit argues that since Obama had dual citizenship "at birth" and therefore split loyalties "at birth", he is not a "natural born citizen" of the United States.  A "natural born citizen" would have no other jurisdiction over him "at birth" other than that of the United States. The Framers chose the words "natural born" and those words cannot be ignored.  The status referred to in Article 2, Section 1, "natural born citizen", pertains to the status of the person's citizenship "at birth".

The other numerous law suits circling Obama to question his eligibility fail to hit the mark on this issue.  Since Obama was, "at birth", a British citizen, it is completely irrelevant, as to the issue of Constitutional "natural born citizen" status, whether Obama was born in Hawaii or abroad.  Either way, he is not eligible to be President.  Should Obama produce an original birth certificate showing he was born in Hawaii, it will not change the fact that Obama was a British citizen "at birth". 

Obama has admitted to being a British subject "at birth".  And as will be made perfectly clear below, his being subject to British jurisdiction "at birth" bars him from being eligible to be President of the United States.    

As I have argued before the United States Supreme Court, the 14th Amendment does not confer "natural born citizen" status anywhere in its text.  It simply states that a person born in the United States is a "Citizen", and only if he is "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States.  

Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution of the United States:

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."


The most overlooked words in that section are: "...or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution..."  You must recall that most, if not all, of the framers of the Constitution were, at birth, born as British subjects.  

Stop and think about that.

The chosen wording of the Framers here makes it clear that they had drawn a distinction between themselves - persons born subject to British jurisdiction - and "natural born citizens" who would not be born subject to British jurisdiction or any other jurisdiction other than the United States.  And so the Framers grandfathered themselves into the Constitution as being eligible to be President.  But the grandfather clause only pertains to any person who was a Citizen... at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution.  Obama was definitely not a Citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution and so he is not grandfathered in.

And so, for Obama or anybody else to be eligible to be President, they must be a "natural born citizen" of the United States "at birth".  It should be obvious that the Framers intended to deny the Presidency to anybody who was a British subject "at birth".  If this had not been their intention, then they would not have needed to include a grandfather clause which allowed the Framers themselves to be President.

If you click through to Factcheck.org, a more detailed discussion as to why Obama was a British citizen at birth explains the relevant statutes:

"When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom's dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.'s children:

British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.

In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.' "


The article goes on to state that Obama's British citizenship was transferred to Kenya as Kenya became independent from the UK and that Obama's Kenyan citizenship expired when he turned 21 years old.  But none of that is relevant since the Constitution requires that every President be a "natural born citizen".  The word "born" is proof positive that the status must be present "at birth".  If this were not the case, then, as stated above, the Framers would not have needed to put in a grandfather clause. 

The Framers recognized that even they were not "natural born citizens" and so they wrote the grandfather clause in to allow any of them to become President.  But the grandfather clause only pertains to those who were Citizens at the time of the Constitution's adoption.  And so, Barack Obama is not a "natural born citizen" of the United States and neither is John McCain who was born in Panama, and neither is Roger Calero who was born in Nicaragua.

226 posted on 11/20/2008 11:49:19 PM PST by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: NDman

Welcome to FR. Now read, and learn. You have much to learn. Facts are about to become part of your world. That will be uncomfortable at first. Maybe even painful, depending on how tightly you cling to your delusions.


227 posted on 11/20/2008 11:50:01 PM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~)
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To: Frantzie

What is the Internet radio station and, I hate to sound so tech retarded, but how do I listen to it?


228 posted on 11/20/2008 11:57:51 PM PST by singfreedom
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To: BP2

Excellent and accurately detailed analysis of Donofrio’s
premises. Thank you


229 posted on 11/20/2008 11:59:01 PM PST by STARWISE (They (Dims) think of this WOT as Bush's war, not America's war-RichardMiniter, respected OBL author)
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To: The Brush; NDman
"I would ask you why he has hired two law firms to fight requests to see his BC if it were legit?"


And...has spent over 800K fighting this when all he has to do is present a vault birth certificate.

That's not a hard thing to do.


I don't think the Constitution has a"Grandfather clause."

If it does, would one of you kind folks give me chapter and verse on it?


"Welcome to FR... we have spell check available, sadly it doesn't overcome poor grammar"


Bump!

Is it just me, or are there a lot of new signups who have trollish features?

230 posted on 11/21/2008 12:00:41 AM PST by dixiechick2000
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To: BP2

Thank you for the education. That’s what sets us apart from the animals and liberals.


231 posted on 11/21/2008 12:06:38 AM PST by BykrBayb (May God have mercy on our souls. ~)
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To: NDman
"The court didnt want to touch the gore v bush recount case with a 10 foot poll so I highly doubt they want to redefine the constitution to nullify the will of the people"


What are you talking about?

The Supreme Court absolutely shut down the recount.

The FL Supremes were trying to usurp the executive, and legislature's authority.

So, you are not just a troll...you are a young 'un, too...and ignorant in the laws of our country.

232 posted on 11/21/2008 12:09:17 AM PST by dixiechick2000
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To: NDman
"The court didnt want to touch the gore v bush recount case with a 10 foot poll so I highly doubt they want to redefine the constitution to nullify the will of the people"


Actually...in my last reply to you, that should be the US Supreme Court.

233 posted on 11/21/2008 12:11:36 AM PST by dixiechick2000
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To: jcsjcm
Both of McCain's parents were also over the age of majority. Obama’s mother was only 16, at that time the age of majority was 18.
234 posted on 11/21/2008 12:17:45 AM PST by singfreedom
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To: dixiechick2000
Many newbies ..... ;)


235 posted on 11/21/2008 12:20:47 AM PST by STARWISE (They (Dims) think of this WOT as Bush's war, not America's war-RichardMiniter, respected OBL author)
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To: jcsjcm
Hummmm, I guess the impatient Obamites, claiming to be peaceniks, have decided to launch their own “war” against the Pentagon!

Actually, it's probably the Chinese again. I'm sure they are sensing MANY moments of weakness in the coming 4 years. They're just starting early.

236 posted on 11/21/2008 12:24:56 AM PST by singfreedom
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To: Frantzie

bump


237 posted on 11/21/2008 12:26:50 AM PST by XHogPilot
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To: BP2; Calpernia; Fred Nerks; null and void; pissant; george76; Polarik; PhilDragoo; Candor7; ...

Ping to #226.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2135761/posts?page=226#226


238 posted on 11/21/2008 12:28:52 AM PST by LucyT (.......................Don't go wobbly now.......................)
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To: NDman
>>>Grandfather clause

Negative, NO Grandfather clause with that one. Sorry...

Regardless, go back to ultra-accurate website, http://fightthesmears.com, and check it out (no need for Obots to change or remove the webpage -- it's been screenshot, archived and printed [we're wise to Obot tricks]):

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”

And here's a nugget of wisdom from Vol 7 of the Foreign Affairs Manual on Dual or Multiple Nationality

U.S. nationals and citizens may possess dual or multiple nationality and owe allegiance to one or several foreign states. They may even have identified themselves more closely with the foreign state than with the United States, thereby calling into question the propriety of extending protection to them. Since each country establishes its own law of nationality, dual nationality cannot be eliminated, may result in confusion, and could complicate the ability of the U.S. Government to protect its nationals/citizens.

Even if he didn't "swear an oath of alliance," Obama still had foreign citizen rights with England/Kenya until 1982 -- dual citizenship and divided loyalties to the US. That's why the POTUS is the ONLY office that has that requirement -- Natural Born Citizen.

And I'm HIGHLY confident the SCOTUS will view it this way too in a CONSTITUTIONAL Context -- previous SCOTUS rulings and other laws written will have very little impact in their thoughts on how to apply Natural Born Citizen Constitutional requirements for the POTUS.

Oh, and Welcome to FR!

239 posted on 11/21/2008 12:30:20 AM PST by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: Proud2BeRight
Yes, I got that, too! My own anti-virus said that the “other” anti-virus is a “risk”, and immediately disconnected my computer. Whatever that is, I don't need it! The “clash of the anti-viruses” may be why my computer crashed.
240 posted on 11/21/2008 12:30:31 AM PST by singfreedom
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