Posted on 11/20/2008 8:10:27 PM PST by Frantzie
Posted: Nov.20.2008 @ 9:20 pm | Lasted edited: Nov.20.2008 @ 9:31 pm US SUPREME COURT TAKES EXTRAORDINARY EXPEDITED ACTION IN FAST TRACKING NJ CITIZEN SUIT CHALLENGING '08 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.
I am awaiting clarification from the Clerk's office at the United States Supreme Court as to whether my stay application has now been accepted in lieu of a more formal full petition for certiorari (and/or mandamus or prohibition). Such a transformation is a rare and significant emergency procedure. It was used in Bush v. Gore, a case I have relied on in my brief.
We do know the case has certainly been "DISTRIBUTED for Conference", a process usually reserved for full petitions of certiorari. Stays are usually dealt with in a different manner. As to a stay application, a single Justice may; a) deny the stay; b) grant the stay; c) refer the stay to the full Court.
(Excerpt) Read more at blogtext.org ...
“The problem with McCain is that they did not at the time of his birth have a military hospital built in Panama. It was several years later that they built one. His mother had no choice in a hospital. They passed a law that gave him natural born citizenship since his father was in the military and his wife had no other choice. I think that is the right decision. He father was in the Military fighting for our country. He should be considered a Natural born”
Yes, this is what the better idea would be and is commonly held. How in the world does one say it or draw analogy- but it is not part of the US Constitution! I didn’t spell “spouse” as “spouses” and could have added mothers alone, eh? I noted vets would be ( and I add seemingly rightly) ticked but there is a hole in the Constitution that needs be plugged and I’m sure Donofrio would say as he has included McCain in the case. Now tell me- is this the ONLY potential position or privilege that one loses in not being “natural born” for Art 2’s qualification to the Presidency? (NON-LAWYER HERE).
Just do a what-if: Amendment XII BY MY POOR LIGHTS says its thrown to open to the attending electors- those having right to vote Dec 15 even though they have transit (bad word) via disqualified candidates. Biden could be a puppet prez, but I think he’d be viewed as having colluded in this scam. Shoot, it could be Hillary,as much as many BO’ers can’t stand her. I don’t think the Electoral College would let it go to the House, and they will NOT let a Repub win. If it goes past Dec 15 without SC ruling fully in favor of Donofrio, it gets simpler, but it still could be HRC via the House. I don’t think you’d ever get Pelosi (or Biden for that matter) out of there given what BO’s already signaled w/ appointments and their effects on moderate House members and BO in general on stock market. If Biden is there, HRC would be VP, IMHO. This is kind of perverse fun, isn’t it?
A caller into the plainsradio show I think the Monday night edition (I WAS tired- trying to do too many things) posited to LD and he just took a stab as somewhat I have above. I’m sure he said he hadn’t studied it. I’ll have to go back.
My head doesn’t like this, just as it doesn’t like thinking a vet born in a foreign hospital to a mom on military / state duty or (she) escorting father in such duty isn’t qualified. But that’s what happens with law that is so far behind times. One need not write a complicated amendment of many scenarios, just give Congress right to vote to remedy such close periphery w/ challange being made in short period prior to general election. Word it similar to as its in Art 2 sec 1 qualifications para 2 ..”until the disability be removed”...with this mess it’d pass into law in a month...a week.
But again, I am NOT terribly confident with regular positions of conduit of Constitutional law to statue, needless to say having been blugeoned by free association of its practice in the past few decades (”stretching the Constitution”). I hope I don’t appear to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater but, to try say it another way, the whole soup’s being spoiled. This really has been one of the most dreadful times in American history, no matter what transpires. Dreadful, terrible. NO MATTER WHAT. God have Mercy. God have Mercy on our poor nation.
I can’t see how McCain would win with those Obamites in Electoral College even if he retained legitimate candidacy (and Obama not). He’d certainly never get elected by the House. The insurrections will be great enough - if a Repub get put in without a full re-run of final election (post-primaries), the nations is way charred toast. It’ll have to be a Dem, even though DNC is obviously in great collusion.
This is why I think a re-run of election would not be out of question...by March 4, say (using Amend XII)- or else its Cheney- well, for a little while- well that’s what it refers to- the presently acting VP, no? If so, the Dems might actually be cooperative for a change!
I just love the smell of flaming trolls in the morning!
I think it happened in Johnny Dangerously, too.
Stopping this suit sets an even more dangerous situation.
bttt
From what I have read since this all came out a couple of days ago, the following paragraphs I think summarize the gist of the Donofrio suit.
There is no definition of the term “natural born” anywhere that can supersede what is contained in the Constitution itself. No law, statute, etc. can amend the U.S. Constitution, since it is the Supreme law of the land. (Or at least it is supposed to be.) Only an amendment can change what was originally written in the constitution.
The only place the term “natural born” is defined (that can be considered legal) is within the Constitution itself. It is in the section referring to the president and that definition must be inferred by the fact that the founding fathers by adding the only exception to the “natural born” clause. The one exception allows for citizens at the time the constitution was adopted to be eligible to be President as well as “natural born” citizens.
The inference is pretty clear since the Founding Fathers were not “natural born” citizens because they were born as British subjects. This enabled them to be the early leaders of this country and get it started on the path they had laid out, but to deny the future leaders from having divided loyalties by birth. Hence to be a natural born citizen you must be born on U.S. soil and not have the possibility of foreign citizenship at birth to any other country.
Please correct me if any of you others who have read his suit feel my interpretation is missing something, but I think it sums up what Donofrio’s stance regarding the term “natural born” citizenship status.
I would note that when I studied the Constitution in grade school as a child, this is pretty close to the example my teacher provided to us. I will explain that in another post.
In my example Mrs. Smith was born in Germany and is still a German citizen. Mrs. Smith is married to Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith was born in Texas, and his parents are U.S. citizens too, so he is a “natural born” citizen. Mr. and Mrs. Smith have a son born in the United States. The son is a citizen by birth because he was born in the United States but he is not a “natural born” citizen because his parents each bestow their citizenship on the child, so the son can not grow up to be President. Mrs. Smith later becomes a U.S. Citizen. She is a Naturalized citizen. The son, however, still can’t grow up to be President since at birth he had divided loyalties and can never be considered a “natural born” citizen.
Now if both Mr. and Mrs. Smith were both German citizens, but were living in the United States, their child would still be a U.S. citizen by birth on U.S. soil, but he is still not a natural born citizen because both is parents are German citizens, and therefore their citizenship is bestowed on their child.
If Mr. Smith was a U.S. citizen and Mrs. Smith was a German citizen and they lived in Germany when their son was born, their son would be a U.S. citizen by his father’s parentage or by blood, since the father bestowed his U.S. Citizenship on his son. The son could not be president, however, because the mother also bestows her citizenship on the child and because he was born on foreign soil.
I hope this helps people to understand the different types of citizenship. In summary you need two parents to be U.S. Citizens at the time of your birth and you must be born on U.S. soil to be a “natural born” citizen.
Donofrio’s case rests on Obama’s British and/or Kenyan citizenship by birth as the reason he is not qualified to serve as President. He claims that it doesn’t matter if Obama was born in the U.S. because his father bestowed foreign citizenship on him at birth so while he would be likely be considered a U.S. citizen even though his mother was only 18, he is not a natural born citizen because his father was a citizen of a foreign country at the time of his birth.
The Socialist party candidate was born on foreign soil by two foreign parents, so he clearly can’t be qualified even though he is a naturalized U.S. citizen.
Donofrio’s suit further claims that even though McCain’s parents were U.S. citizens at the time of his birth, he was born on foreign soil, therefore he is a citizen by blood but not a “natural born” citizen.
I think I have stated it all correctly for those of you who can’t get on to Donofrio’s web page or listen to the tapes. I hope this helps. If any of the Freepers interpret things differently that I did, please feel free to state what you think. I promise I won’t be offended if I didn’t state something quite right.
“allowing this suit to move forward sets a rather dangerous precedent.”
You could not be more wrong.
Failing to allow this suit to move forward sets an extremely dangerous precedent.
“Either we have a constitution or we don’t. If we don’t, then the Federal income tax is out the window.”
Interesting comment.
“The vast majority of stay applications are denied. And once denied, a renewed application is truly a desperate measure the success of which heralds one of the rarest birds in Supreme Court history.”
This comment stands out.
“If a citizen can sue a president elect, then why can’t I sue any government official?”
Point of fact: Barack Obama is NOT the President-Elect! He will not be the President-Elect until the Electoral College casts their votes on December 15, and those votes are certified. (This is assuming that - as is expected - the Electors cast their votes for Obama).
If you are going to argue legal merits of a case and such I would suggest you paying attention to minutiae such as what I have explained above.
Thankfully we still have internet and conservative radio. All the more reason to get rid of 0 and E before they have a chance to trash that along with many other of our freedoms.
I had the same thing happen to me yesterday as well... Although I don’t believe I had FR open at the time (it could’ve been in one of the background tabs though....).
Did any of you figure out what it was? I’ve run my virusscan and can’t find anything, and I pulled up the Desktop manager to see what was running the second time it happened and didn’t find anything odd in the list of services, programs or processes.
If there are four of us here saying this happened to them it would seem that it’s more than coincidence. Either some kind of “bug” making the rounds, or more likely some “bug” that’s been directed towards us, or a site we’ve all visited.
I’m not technically adept enough to figure out more than my suspicions. I’ll be very interested if any of you come across an explanation for it though.
Please see my comment at #253. I had the same problem yesterday as well. That’s 5 of us on this thread alone. That is starting to spike my interest and seems to me that it’s way more than coincidence now...
Personally I would prefer to see this suit go forward than to end up with a constitutional convention. I just don’t trust the clowns in Washington with “fixing” the constitution.
http://www.linux.com/download_linux/ I cannot for the LIFE of me figure out why people would put up with the kind of foolishness MS allows, especially with Mepis Linux being so brain dead simple nowadays.
BTW, if you are already infected with one of the later virus variants, running your virus scan won't do you much good. Better to make yourself a bootable floppy, install fprot on it, boot from the floppy and let it go.
On the other hand, you should know that surfing the web with IE and activeX enabled (one of the stupidest things someone can do) will enable you simply drop by a site and have a popup telling you "you have picked up a virus, would you like to delete it" or something like you got which tells you it is "scanning" and then asks you if you would like to "remove the virus." If you click "yes" on the dialogue box, THAT is when your problems start. You really don't need to unplug your computer (smile). Just exit your browser. I would highly recommend using Opera, Firefox with noscript, or google chrome if you insist on using windows as an OS.
For your average semi retired freeper, who only uses the computer to surf, post, email, and send pics of the grandkids, linux is all you would ever need, it is free, virus resistant, stable, and secure..., if you ever get tired of wasting half your computing power running idiotic virus sweeps and malware protection.
For what all that is worth........
Thank you for the facts. I can’t keep up with all the lawsuits. :(
Unless Obama is 300 years old the Grandfather clause that the Founding Fathers included in the original constitution - the part that says “Citizens at the time of the adoption of the Constitution” (paraphrased) has no bearing on this matter whatsoever.
Any suggestions for someone already using Firefox and NEVER uses IE???
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