Free Solar Power Is Hoax

The Albuquerque Journal ^ | January 15, 2009 | James P. O'Loughlin, Placitas Engineer

[CedarDave]

The article “N.M. Solar Energy Plan Expanded,” about the state Public Regulation Commission's promotion of grid-tied photovoltaic (PV) power generation states that ... invest[ment] in PV installations will have “free” electricity.

I evaluated such an installation for our house using Public Service Company of New Mexico PV information on its Web site. I checked the results against more sophisticated resources and found the PNM results to be in good agreement.

For my house, a PV system's cost is about $10,000 per kw, or for our case about $40,000.

... Based on a 20-year life and 6 percent cost of money, this comes to a monthly cost of $286.57. The monthly cost for the same amount of energy from PNM service is $42.75 — where is the “free” electricity?

There is an insurmountable fact of nature that forces photovoltaic to be several times more expensive than conventional power generation: The sun doesn't shine for 24 hours a day. This requires that a PV generation installation must have a power rating that is about six times higher than a continuously running conventional installation for the same energy output.

~~snip~~

The cliché about investing in research and development to decrease the cost of panels and make PV power generation competitive is an unachievable myth that is fanatically pursued by the government and other groups having various and peculiar reasons.

When reality is not acceptable, the government can fix it with political alchemy. Through the influence of pressure groups and lobbyists, state and federal governments decree that photovoltaic power generation must be implemented. To fix the inherently expensive PV power generation problem, governments provide tax credits, incentives and other forms of subsidy to cover up the excessive cost.

This does not reduce the actual cost; it just transfers it to the general taxpayer or ratepayer.

[Mike Darancette]

The solar powered toilets in Oregon are ruined because the heavy snowfall covered the solar cells so long the batteries discharges and were destroyed.

[Claud]

Good points, both of you.

NVDave, like you said, it’s a problem with “true believers.” I have a liberal relative that is really into alternative energy, and when I started sharing my experiments/research with her she was excited and asked if she could designate me as her researcher for solar projects. And I’m not even an engineer! LOL. Nothing against her—not everyone can be a science/engineering nerd but it points up the essential problem: too many people seeing it as a political issue and not an engineering/technology issue.

Photovoltaics are a neat and useful technology, but there are definite problems with them, and I would have to disagree with anyone who thinks they are “clean and green”, between the manufacturing of the things and the chemical soup of batteries. When someone figures out how to grow them from a plant and store the energy in a lemon then maybe. :)

[Diana in Wisconsin]

I don’t doubt it’s coming. But, I have all sorts of plans in place to thwart whatever they can come up with. They’re really not all that smart, LOL! :)

[org.whodat]

LOL, trying buying enough property to put in a hydro electric. Government power subsidies worked for a long time. Just like building the interstate highway system. But then came lobbyists and rigged contracts and just general mismanagement of the utilities. TVA is a good example, the people running it thought it was their private cash cow and now they are in billions of dollars of debt.

[org.whodat]

The Price-Anderson Act set up a pooling of liability across all operating reactors in the US. Right now, their pooled liability account is worth over $10 billion. Since the insurance requirements are based on a per-facility basis, and not on a size of the facility, the costs of the insurance are easily reduced by increasing the size of the reactor’s generation capacity.

You could buy it cheaper from AIG, but then they would never intend to pay off. So you are back to the funny money insurance and your tax dollars.

[NVDave]

There’s a designated insurer just for nuke operators, and here’s their website:

http://www.nuclearinsurance.com/

I read somewhere else that a typical annual premium for coverage is $400K/site. That’s just the primary insurance, then they’d need a secondary policy. Dunno how much that would be.

[gorush]

We are entering our 4th year here since building the place. The results have been very gratifying. Heating, A/C and hot water costs under $700.00/yr. A blizzard can be blowing outside and if you weren't looking out the windows you wouldn't sense it.

[NVDave]

I almost dare not ask, what with Oregon’s reputation for environmental silliness... but I’m preternaturally curious:

Just why does a toilet need solar power? Or should I say, why did these toilets need solar power? To power a stereo that would play wind chime and pan flute music while a person used them? Or to power the lava lamp for ambiance?

[NVDave]

For where you are, that $700 is chump change. Well done!

From the pic, it looks as tho you use propane for heating fuel?

[gorush]

The propane is for the clothes dryer and stove/oven only.

[gorush]

The 100 gal tank lasts a year.

[Old Professer]

Compare Edison and Tesla; both recognized inventors of power transmission with the one relying on financing to build and install localized power plants and selling them to those who could afford to buy them while the other pursued a Quixotic dream of supplying even greater, nay virtually free power if only he could gain the funds through a sponsoring supporter.

Edison, ever the practical plugger made money from his inventions, his deft, if at times clumsy artisanship serving himself and his successors while Tesla, far more brilliant and driven by a tireless mind made invention his art and died alone with only the company of a white dove who flew in and out his window to feed on the crumbs of the meager crackers that sustained him in his final days; the dove, the ultimate symbol of peace and sacrifice was likely the final witness to the end of a great man’s life in a pensioned apartment in a fine hotel.

When science becomes more art than quest for elegant solution, the goal becomes more mission than destination.

[org.whodat]

Yes, but Tesla was the true genus!!

[Starfleet Command]

Yes, but Tesla was the true genus!!

That's a species statement...(rimshot).

[org.whodat]

Should add, it is a shame so many have no ideal who Tesla was???

[Old Professer]

I ran a maintenance shop where we had to keep batteries on hand for starting gensets, running golf carts and traction trucks, forklifts, mowing equipment, ag tractors, utility trucks (Cushman), and a few for automotive use.

The only way to guarantee reliability was by using an annual changeout schedule.

We threw away a lot of good batteries but could not afford a failure - large hospital campus operation.

The forklift batteries were an exception since they could be rebuilt.

Reality sets in only after the sale of grand ideas.

[org.whodat]

lol

[Old Professer]

Lead/acid batteries are almost freeze-proof as long as they remain in a charged state as long as the 25% sulfur solution lasts.

As they go dead the sulfur retreats to the plates and only water is left; the water freezes, the plates buckle, make contact and short out.

[Mike Darancette]

The article didn’t say what the electricity was used for but each one cost $140,000. What a joke.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/634

[Old Professer]

True but he had the business sense of a poet, the patience of a hummingbird and the determination of a mule without his homing instinct.

Not knowing when to quit, he strove fearlessly ahead from task to task with no care for personal reward save comfort which was denied him in the end but for a mere subsistance allowance from his native land.