Oh please, it a typo. He meant Sun Yat-sen. Being dead doesn't prohibit one from having a birth certificate. Here's an image of Sun Yat-sen's Certificate of Hawaiian Birth.
Posted on 01/23/2009 12:08:54 PM PST by Corazon
Oh please, it a typo. He meant Sun Yat-sen. Being dead doesn't prohibit one from having a birth certificate. Here's an image of Sun Yat-sen's Certificate of Hawaiian Birth.
See #220.
Yes, but it's not very relevant to this case. As I said in an earlier post, I don't think any conclusions can be drawn about whether the State of Hawaii would issue a COLB to a non-citizen based on what the Territory of Hawaii did involving a very special individual nearly 60 years earlier.
As for the claimed Maya Soetoro COLB, see #220.
I don’t think Ann had Jr in Kenya(because of logistics and cost, even the U.S. and Canadian governments of the time sent their military personnel and families to Europe via cruise ship because of the expense of air travel) but I do believe she was sent away before she began to show. I wonder if step grandma Sarah got confused and is referring to Mark born in 1964 as Jr. We know that Ann was staying with a friend of her mother in WA state before she lived in the apartment on Capitol Hill and I think the friend made arrangements for Ann to go to a home for unwed mothers.(Further to this thought, did you know that at that time hospitals, including those in WA state, had segregated wards for blacks and that included white women who were married to blacks?) This would explain why Ann didn’t know how to change diapers. My mind has been going over and over a quote which the babysitter said found here:
http://redoubtreporter.blogspot.com/2009/01/obama-baby-sitter-awaits-new-era.html
This is what keeps going through my mind:
“She had told me at one point that because of her husband’s post in the tribe he was going to have to go back to Kenya and marry a black woman, as well.”
From that we can see that Ann knew of the polygamy in Kenya. We also have Kezia mentioning that Obama Sr had written asking for her permission to marry Ann. Later Kezia mentions that when Sr returned to Kenya he came to the village and told she would have to wait until he could find a job and a place to live. She further says she didn’t know about Ruth until Sr’s 1971 car accident. This contradicts with information that Roy and Auma lived with their father and Ruth. If Roy and Auma were living with their father after he returned to Kenya in 1964, why does Kezia say she didn’t know about Ruth until 1971?
But you don't have any.
Even the Sun Yat-sen document is not a COLB, but a "Certificate of Hawaiian Birth".
The requirements are that parents had previously resided in Hawaii during the year prior to the birth.
Didn't Obama's mother reside in Indonesia in the year prior to Maya's birth?
But I'll bet in 1961 a hapa popolo hapa hoeli one was highly unusual. Lots of mixes in Hawaii would be more common, probably all of them. Plenty of opportunity for all sorts of exotic hybrids. Caucasian, Japanese, Chinese, Samoan, Filipinos, probably even "Mexican", but not many Blacks in '61, and white/black mix was probably much less common than black with the rest of them.
If this happened as stated (which I am sure is not the case), since 0bama was supposedly born around quarter to eight in the evening, and these people are having dinner that very same night, it’s hard to imagine that Ann had already decided the name, told the doctor (who was retired from practice) and he took such note of it that he tells others. All that night.
Another point - most mothers in those days, from what I understand, were heavily medicated, so what are the chances that she is so wide awake that she instantly names the baby and tells the doc?
You do have a point - but still, seems to me that unless the mother specifically tells the doc the father’s race, it might not be apparent immediately that the father is black; could be Fijian, Tongan, Samoan, even Hawaiian. Anyway, it is a fine point and I should just stop already!
Actually he may nor may not "Have" a certification of live birth, all we've seen is an image purporting to be his Certification. He may or may not have a Certificate of Live Birth. There are three separate documents in Hawaii called a "birth certificate". Plus the Certification, which is not a "source" document at all, but a generated on demand "extract" from one of the three "original" birth certificate types. These are "Certificate of Live Birth", "Certificate of Hawaiian Birth" (such as Sun Yat-sen had), and a Late Certificate of Birth.
Or Australian Aborigine for that matter. I agree or Indian/Pakistani.
Call the Hollister law firm and ask them. They put it into the filing. I can assure you no law firm files a claim without supporting documentation.
If you are really interested in nailing down the Maya COLB issue, call the law firm. Otherwise I agree that it’s not so important as there are other examples of people not having been born in Hawaii having a COLB recorded.
I second your call... “BS”.
It’s ‘clear’ where it came from? Did you ask the Hollister attorneys?
Again you are speculating and wildly so. Call the Hollister law firm yourself and ask them. Otherwise you are accusing them of filing hearsay before the court. I assure you no law firm would do that if they wanted to be taken seriously.
Here is the source statute from the State of Hawaii for obtaining a COLB for children not born in Hawaii.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol06_ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.HTM
I suppose you have an argument with the State of Hawaii as well? Is their statute just an ‘internet rumor’? Would anyone stating that a COLB from Hawaii does not prove being born there, are they just some sort of conspiracy crank?
I don’t think you are going to call the Hollister attorneys because what are you going to say? That they are a group of incompetents spreading bogus hearsay in court?
Here’s the number:
(520)584-0236
Lawrence Joyce, Esq., Attorney for Hollister
I am new to posting here but have read this thread with great interest as the story seems VERY far fetched to me. I did a quick search for Barbara Nelson and I found a link to a workshop for High School English Teachers from 2004 and she is listed as one of the contributors. I realize that it is a common name and it may be a different person. However, the interesting part to me is that the workshop was funded by the Annenberg Corp. This may all be simply a coincidence but I thought that I would throw it out for comments. (see pg 8 - contributors - the bio does say that she has been in Virginia for 15 years so it may not be the same person)
http://www.learner.org/workshops/hswriting/support/intro.pdf
Obama Sr probably did not even tell his father that he has a white girl. However, taking on another wife was a good thing. Thus, Obama Sr’s father would have been willing to send air fare money. Obama Sr calculated that the minute his father saw Ann, the entire thing would explode. This would convince Ann that her desire to be married to Obama Sr was futile. This was the out that Obama Sr knew would happen. And it took the heat off him and put it on his father for causing the break up.
To smooth things over so that Ann's life was not totally ruined, Obama Sr got his father to finance Ann's flight back to Washington State. The idea of continuing her education back in her old stomping grounds had a great appeal to Ann. Also, going direct to Washington State and not stopping in Hawaii was a way to bypass mother Madelyn, who was mad as a hen that her daughter got pregnant to a black man. With news that the marriage thing was futile, Madelyn would have made Ann's life real miserable. Hence, a direct flight to Seattle (or Vancouver BC) was a way to distance herself from her mother. Ann could let her mother know about the failure to put a marriage together from Seattle, Washington without the direct heat from a ballistic mother.
I know other accounts say that Ann returned with child to Hawaii after giving birth to Baby O. However, none of these accounts say that time, the international airport in Honolulu was just being built, and Stanley would not have been able to fly directly from Kenya to Honolulu, but only through Seattle.
So, when Ann went to the airport to fly to Washington State, the airline told her to stay in Kenya and have the baby. She shows up on Mercer Island with her friend, Susan Blake three weeks after the birth. She complains that she does not know how to do diapers and asks Susan to change them for her. Perhaps when she had the newborn baby O in Kenya, there was an alternative to diapers.
I hate to leave this on the subject of diapers, but I think that it dramatizes the stench of this entire situation. What we have her is a diaper load and lots of explaining to do from the President(?).
Yes, Hawaii seems pretty relaxed on the regulations:
"§338-5 Compulsory registration of births. Within the time prescribed by the department of health, a certificate of every birth shall be substantially completed and filed with the local agent of the department in the district in which the birth occurred, by the administrator or designated representative of the birthing facility, or physician, or midwife, or other legally authorized person in attendance at the birth; or if not so attended, by one of the parents.
The birth facility shall make available to the department appropriate medical records for the purpose of monitoring compliance with the provisions of this chapter. [L 1949, c 327, §9; RL 1955, §57-8; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-5; am L 1988, c 149, §1]"
As I mentioned in a previous post the Maya C.O.L.B. is incidental and not of prime importance to me. I equate it in the same way as Maya’s first marriage. Just because her first marriage isn’t mentioned and isn’t in the “official story” doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. We know from the Clark County NV application for a marriage license filled out by Maya and Konrad that Maya was married previously and the first marriage ended in divorce May 12, 1995. The Maya C.O.L.B. is the same type of thing, just because mention of it hasn’t been made in the “official story” doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
According to the information in the article she spent 40 years in Hawaii and returned to N.Y. state in the 21st century. She did take a course in HI and I found that information last night on a website dedicated to programs for teachers in HI. Right at the moment I cannot remember the year she took the course but it was shortly after the inception of the course in HI and she is listed as a teacher at Punahou. The story has already fallen apart with regard to her memory of the day Jr was born and the fact that she is following the “official storyline” by mentioning that when Obama Sr returned to the island in 1971 it was the first time he had seen Jr in eight years. We already know that Ann and Jr were in WA state before the end of August 1961 and Obama Sr left HI in June 1962. There was no eight years except in the “official story” and with those who failed to investigate.
Interesting theoretical storyline but the one thing that doesn’t fit is the divorce decree between 0bama Sr and Stanley Ann.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.