Posted on 01/26/2009 8:05:38 PM PST by jiggyboy
WASHINGTON—The Supreme Court ruled Monday that police officers have leeway to frisk a passenger in a car stopped for a traffic violation even if nothing indicates the passenger has committed a crime or is about to do so.
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The pat-down is allowed if the police "harbor reasonable suspicion that a person subjected to the frisk is armed, and therefore dangerous to the safety of the police and public," Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said.
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The case is Arizona v. Johnson, 07-1122.
(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...
The public "harbor reasonable suspicion that a person subjected to the frisk may not be a citizen, and therefore dangerous to the safety of the country and public,"
[extract from court document slightly digested]Sounds like reasonable suspicion: In a place of gang activity, someone dressed like a gang member, carrying a police scanner, and admitting to being a convicted criminal recently out of prison.On April 19, 2002 members of Arizona’s gang taskforce were on patrol in Tucson near a neighborhood associated with the Crips gang. At approximately 9 p.m., the officers pulled over an automobile after a license plate check revealed that the vehicle’s registration had been suspended for an insurance-related violation
At the time of the stop, the vehicle had three occupants—the driver, a front-seat passenger, and a passenger in the back seat, Lemon Montrea Johnson.
Johnson was wearing clothing, including a blue bandana, considered consistent with Crips membership.
Johnson provided his name and date of birth but said he had no identification with him. He volunteered that he was from Eloy, Arizona, a place known to be home to a Crips gang. Johnson further said he had served time in prison for burglary and had been out for about a year.
This very thing happened to my d-i-l, her best friend, and best friend’s boyfriend a week ago. Boyfriend was driving and speeding. Cop stopped them and frisked all three of them. D-i-l said he kept saying that he thought it was really odd that she’d let somebody else drive her new car. My d-i-l was so scared that she even let him search her car.
Sign me up. I’d rather NOT see police in my neighborhood. and YES i am serious.
Yeah, the “conservatives” have a disturbing habit of government-sucking at the most inopportune times. Some of Scalia’s statements in particular seem to parse down to “but that would be inconvenient for the police”.
Well if you see C4 being passed around the car by three scraggly guys, it’s very reasonable indeed to think that some kind of crime has either already happened (theft), is happening (improper transport of explosives?), or is about to happen.
But here’s my beef. From the link above:
“the Court further held that a driver, once outside the stopped vehicle, may be patted down for weapons if the officer reasonably concludes that the driver “might be armed and presently dangerous.”...Wilson held that the Mimms rule applied to passengers as well as to drivers.”
This says to me that it didn’t matter whether the officer saw the scanner in the pocket, or the blue bandanna, or that the guy came from a town where there was a Crips gang. (If I live in L.A., am I also automatically considered armed and dangerous because I come from a city where there is a Crips gang?) You can get the driver out of the car and frisk him, because any driver might be violent, per the passage I quoted in my earlier post, and hey what the heck, it applies to the passengers too. No observation or thought is necessary, which is the mark of a police state.
I think I read "armed and dangerous." The dangerous part is where I am confused. Does one having permit become dangerous because they are armed? I live in a state where one is advised (though not required) to let the officer know you are carrying if stopped. My guess is they have permit holders listed on auto registrations and that they have the info as they make the stop.
Now passengers will be frisked for looking frustrated.
You’re the one who wants to live in a police state and I am the idiot. OK!
We do police our own neighborhoods here. Your malignant kind are moved along and life is very peaceful. Doors are not locked, things are not stolen and thugs are taken care of except for Federal park and forest service bums. Them we have to put up with for now.
Thanks for those links. What we are seeing is a reaction to the increase of lawlessness. Our Republic is founded upon the assumption that the people in it are moral and law abiding. Today, most still are, to some extent. Many are not.
However, the consensus about how we are to conduct ourselves is breaking down, voluntary compliance is decreasing, and disorder is increasing. Our most basic right (to life) is constantly under attack, whence flows all manner of evil.
The net result is ever more force imposed across the board to maintain order and protect the public. Many of us are clamoring for more of that.
I do not see the trend reversing itself any time soon.
We are at war with the gangs. Dress like a combatant, get treated like a combatant.
However, that is not the rubric teh Court applied, is it? For the sake of the few places of war, they impaired in rights of all in times and places (which are most places) of peace.
I agree with you. I don’t have much use for visiting insurance salesmen, roaches, fire ants, skunks, or other pest either.
BTTT
Ping
Since WHEN does ARMED = DANGEROUS??? Duh....
What about the PO-LICE?? Aren’t THEY armed and dangerrous also, by definition?
Wonderful....
I got frisked at the airport last year. I am a dangerous looking terrorist type, you know, five foot three, gray haired granny, late sixties, scary looking. The black woman who frisked me felt the plastic clip I had on my waist band for my phone and she almost screamed in fright. She must have thought I had a gun in my waist band. She had been so scared by whoever trained her she was a nervous wreck. She did not belong in that job.
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